Tuesday, 2013-07-09

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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #199 of nightly-multilib is complete: Failure [failed Building Images_4] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly-multilib/builds/19900:39
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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #199 of nightly-world is complete: Failure [failed Building Images] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly-world/builds/19901:03
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cerfhi all02:31
cerf Is anybody there?02:34
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Croftonpatient guy02:44
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britzpHi all, to which mailing list do I submit a patch to /build/tmp/work/armv7a-vfp-neon-poky-linux-gnueabi/libdce/git-r1/git/wayland-drm-protocol.c, anyone knows?05:10
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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #167 of nightly is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly/builds/16706:09
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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #205 of poky-tiny is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/poky-tiny/builds/20506:33
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mckoangood morning07:24
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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #202 of nightly-non-gpl3 is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly-non-gpl3/builds/20207:34
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fenrigHi where can I find documentation on how to get X11 working properly when building with yocto :)09:03
rburton_fenrig: just works for me, what's the problem?09:03
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Stygia(cross-posted from #oe) Hey, I have a question. I am trying to bitbake a package, and this package depends on another package. However... it seems as if the second package gets compiled for x86_64, while the project as a whole is ARM. This causes the first (dependent) package to fail, with an error that it ELFCLASS32 is (obviously) not right for building an ARM program. This is the error output: http://pastebin.com/727V2g9r09:04
fenrigrburton_: Well i'm at the moment making a image based on core-image-minimal with qtbase, so I assume (yes I know this isn't that good) that X will be included. But I just have to include X to have it working properly, no need to configure anything?09:04
StygiaIt seems -c cleanall on perl or the original package does not help either. Anyone have any suggestions09:04
rburton_fenrig: probably best to start with something a bit bigger than minimal, there's a base x11 image you can start from09:05
erengood morning all09:05
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fenrigrburton_: ah where can I find this image?09:06
rburton_fenrig: cunningly called core-image-x11 ;)09:07
fenrigrburton_: Very cunning indeed, thx for your help. Also do you have any documentation advice, I'm having a hard time with finding certain information09:08
rburton_fenrig: only the documentation on www.yoctoproject.org09:09
rburton_unless you have something more specific09:09
fenrigWell yes, I want to know more about existing images and how they work, especially the core-image-x1109:10
erenfenrig: "how they work" is a bit general term09:10
rburton_you can get a list of images by doing something along the lines of ls */recipes/*/images/*.bb09:11
erenare you asking how OpenEmbedded works, or?09:11
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fenrigno not really, I'm trying to find that out while I'm trying to get things working. At the moment I'm trying to include Qt in my image.09:12
rburton_and looking at core-image-x11 you'll see that adding the x11-base image feature gives you a base X stack09:12
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erenhuge netsplit :/09:14
fenrigalso about the rpm's that I generate (using yocto distro) can I manually install them later? And is there a package manager included for that or do I have to add one to the image?09:14
rburton_fenrig: yes09:14
rburton_if the image features contains package-management, you get your chosen package manager09:14
erenshouldn't he enable 'package-management' in distro features to get the package manager in the image?09:15
erenah, image features, sorry09:15
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fenrigokay cool :D09:15
fenrigthx guys you helped me out a lot.09:15
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rburton_fenrig: http://www.yoctoproject.org/docs/current/dev-manual/dev-manual.html contains all these answers09:17
fenrigrburton_: I have it open already, but I did not read everything already.09:18
fenrigbut obviously I should.09:18
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fenrigohyeah, extracting the rootfs.tar.gz to a sd kaart, is there a good tool for this or just use tar?09:22
rburton_the rpi layer has tools to automate all that, some other layers seem to expect people to write their own script09:23
fenrigi'm using the beaglebone black here :p09:23
rburton_afaik, meta-ti doesn't have any tooling to create sd card images for you09:24
rburton_but i don't have anything that uses meta-ti, so don't expect me to know :)09:24
fenrigi'm actually using meta-beagleboard instead of meta-ti :)09:26
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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #200 of nightly-multilib is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly-multilib/builds/20009:34
ant_workfenrig: nice to hear you survived to the first impact09:40
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fenrigant_work: Yes I'm quite suprised actually. I'm still a bachelor student that just passed his second year :D09:47
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ant_workthere are oddities in that layer, though. Probably purposedly done.09:50
pevCan any of you guys give a spot of advice over setting up a .bbappend to modify busybox?09:53
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pevI want to change  few vars set up by a lower layers defconfig. From what I can see you have to implement do_prepare_config_append() - the only example I can find just uses sed to replace strings, so is that it? Should I just replace instances of  "# CONFIG_WIBBLE is not set" with "CONFIG_WIBBLE=y"? Is there a more intelligent way that you can go about it?09:55
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bluelightningpev: which version of the build system are you using?10:05
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bluelightningpev: if it's 1.4 (dylan) or above you can use config fragments with busybox, i.e. you just add the options you want to enable to a .cfg file and then add that to SRC_URI in a bbappend in your layer10:07
StygiaDoes anyone here have any idea why a package I'm building for ARM would try to include an .so file that doesn't match its architecture? I've clean everything, and yet, it fails for including the wrong files. Any suggestions here?10:09
rburton_Stygia: because the makefile is using the wrong compilier?  is the .so compiled for your build host?10:10
Stygiarburton_, The .so is for my target host, for some reason, I recipe I wrote tries to include this file, from an x86_64 dir. As in, another package (in x86_64) tries to depend on the correct .so file, and it fails due to ELFCLASS error.10:11
Stygiarburton_, This is the output.10:11
Stygiarburton_, From do_compile I believe, this is what bitbake with no -D's showed.10:12
rburton_Stygia: run file on the .so it moans about, and compare it to a known-good one.10:13
rburton_Stygia: that will tell you exactly what sort of binary it is10:13
rburton_native perl is loading non-native perl modules10:13
rburton_that's the problem10:13
Stygiarburton_, Hmm? Well I have added tons of perl recipes.10:14
Stygiarburton_, But, they are being 'loaded' as RDEPENDS for my primary script (that depends on all the CPAN modules).10:14
rburton_you're running perl, so obviously that's perl-native10:14
Stygiarburton_, How can I prevent native perl from doing it that then?10:14
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* rburton_ shrugs10:14
Stygiarburton_, I'm not completely certain I understand.10:14
rburton_are you messing with the perl path in your recipe?10:14
StygiaI've just created yet another cpan-related recipe.10:14
Stygiarburton_, No.10:15
rburton_try inherit perlnative10:15
Stygiarburton_, http://pastebin.com/AccF9C0610:15
rburton_actually you must be doing that10:15
Stygiarburton_, This is all of it.10:15
Stygiarburton_, Uh sorry: bhttp://pastebin.com/AccF9C0610:15
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rburton_i'm fairly ignorant about how the perl classes work10:16
Stygiarburton_, That's how I feel about the entire BB system...10:17
rburton_for some reason your native perl binary is using target lib directory10:17
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Stygiarburton_, Adding inherit perlnative above inherit cpan didn't help.10:18
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Stygiarburton_, I suppose I will try "manually" installing this package, then... as it is possible the cpan modules are failing.10:18
rburton_Stygia: its likely a bug in the upstream build system10:21
Stygiarburton_, Quite possible I suppose.10:21
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pevbluelightning: I'm not sure of the exact version - it's based on 1.4 but with a load of new upstream stuff from GIT (someone gave me the distro)10:33
bluelightningpev: ok, then you'll very likely have config fragment support in your busybox recipe, so I'd suggest trying that10:34
pevbluelightning: Is there an example of that somewhere obvious I can see? I assume that only works for enabling extra CONFIG_ vars and that you can't disable ones that are already enabled?10:34
bluelightningpev: if you add "CONFIG_XYZ_10:35
bluelightning er10:35
bluelightningpev: if you add "# CONFIG_XYZ is not set" to your fragment that should turn off options that the defconfig has enabled10:35
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pevoh, so quite smart then! Is there a standard fragment filename or string inside so I can grep through the tree to see an example of how to set one up?10:38
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tfpev: the fragments all end in .cfg10:39
tfpev: you will probably find some examples in meta-intel10:40
pevHere we go : meta-skeleton/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-yocto-custom.bb10:43
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erenI have a strange behavior while packaging libax2510:43
erenI inherit autotools10:43
erenit automatically splits packages10:43
rburton_can you elaborate on that?10:43
pevGiven that it's just via SRC_URI does it just assume it's modifying a file named .config in the root?10:43
tfpev, no10:44
erenhowever, libax25, and libax25-dev are incorrectly split10:44
erenlibax25-dev should include only the headers, and libax25 sohuld include *.so files10:44
erenany ideas how to override them?10:44
rburton_eren: set FILES10:44
rburton_eren: but why should the lib package contain the .so symlinks?10:45
tfpev, the yocto kernel has configs for each particular machine stored in a git tree, and it generates the .config from that and your custom fragments10:45
rburton_(unless it's an evil upstream that drops modules into a libdir)10:45
erenrburton_: well, correct me if I am wrong, a isn't it normal for a library package to contain symlink?10:46
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pevtf: Ok - this is for a busybox .config not a kernel, will it still work then?10:47
tfpev, ah, not sure10:47
tfpev: my appologies, I though you meant the kernel10:47
tferen: .so symlinks belong into the dev package; the runtime package should contain the real, versioned libs10:48
rburton_eren: no.  a normal library package contains eg libfoo.so.1.2 and a libfoo.so.1 symlink.  the -dev package contains headers and libfoo.so symlink.10:49
pevtf : No worries, thanks for your help - I'll have a bodge and see what it does! :-)10:49
rburton_if you have a real .so file (not a symlink), that's generally a loadable module10:49
rburton_eren: yes, that's right10:49
erenthen it's all normal right now10:49
erenthanks to autotools.bbclass! :)10:49
rburton_eren: thanks to bitbake.conf10:49
rburton_eren: this is how libraries work on linux10:50
erenrburton_: yeah, it is a bit hard to understand10:50
erenespecially the versioning schema and links10:50
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erenis there a way to check dependency information, other than ldd?10:51
rburton_it's not that complicated really.  real library has major/minor version, abi-compat symlink with major version, and unversioned .so symlink for compile-time.10:51
rburton_use dpkg or rpm on the generated packages10:51
rburton_might be useful to add a helper to bb for that10:51
erenrburton_: I use dpkg10:51
erenI'm wondering if I should add DEPENDS vriable on bb10:52
rburton_eren: dpkg -I will help10:52
rburton_eren: but for library depends, they get generated for you10:52
erenokkie, I will leave as it is then10:53
erenit is just a small package, shouldn't be a big problem10:53
* eren time to package ax25-{tools, apps}10:54
erenthanks rburton_!10:54
StygiaHmm another question, as I've given up on using the CPAN classes for this recipe... I've set LIBDIR=${libdir} when calling the Makefile.PL, and yet, it seems the recipe tries to install into /usr/local/10:57
StygiaDoes anyone know if there is a varible like local_libdir?10:57
rburton_the fix is to stop it installing into /usr/local, not to package up /usr/local/10:58
rburton_as your perl won't be looking in there10:58
StygiaI am just doing this:10:59
Stygia    perl Makefile.PL BASE_DIR=${D} DESTDIR=${D} INSTALL_BIN=${bindir} LIBDIR=${libdir} BASELIBDIR=${base_libdir} MANDIR=${mandir} DATADIR=${datadir}10:59
StygiaThen perl Build build and in do_install perl Build install10:59
Stygiarburton_, So I'm a bit thrown off that it still installs into /usr/local/. I figured I'd already told it to use the paths from bb.11:00
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bluelightningStygia: should you be specifying PREFIX ?11:06
ant_workbluelightning: rburton_: what's happened to the xinput-calibration patch? I've any recent sightnings of it...11:06
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Stygiabluelightning, PREFIX?11:09
bluelightningStygia: I just googled installing perl modules and found this: http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=12807711:10
bluelightningStygia: there they are suggesting passing PREFIX= on the perl Makefile.PL command line11:10
bluelightningI'm not sure if that helps11:11
pevOk... Next fun question :-) Does anyone know much about how quilt works in yocto? I've got a u-boot that has a couple of patches that get applied. If I do a "bitbake -c devshell u-boot" It opens up a devshell and an "ls -l patches/" shows the two patch files and a series file. Now this looks to me that yocto's used quilt to put the dir together (as the docs elude to) but it seems quilt isn't set up for use from the devshell - i.e. a "quilt series" doesnt11:14
pev pick up on whats there. Id have thought I should just be able to go straight into working with the patches in the dir?11:14
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tfpev, pev that should just work11:17
Stygiabluelightning, Hmm. Before I got your advice, I managed to actually get this junk to compile. I sed'd both Makefile.PL and Build.PL to use values from BB for all paths, then used the cpan_build class... and it actually build.11:18
Stygiabluelightning, Thanks for your help anyway dude, you're invaluable.11:18
Stygiabluelightning, Uh, invaluable is good in English, yea? It doesn't mean worthless?11:18
bluelightningStygia: no problem11:18
bluelightningStygia: invaluable is correct, and I'm glad you think so :)11:19
Stygiabluelightning, I will admit I think the OE documentation is hard to deal with... it's distributed, not well-used, and generally, finding an answer to "How do I X" is hard (For me at least). IRC helps so much.11:19
Stygiabluelightning, I didn't even know there was a CPAN class when I started writing all these CPAN recipes, until someone here on IRC, probably you or rburton_ I think, told me about it. That must have saved me a few days work. :P11:21
fenrigOkay so I've added ' IMAGE_FEATURES += "splash package-management x11-base" ' to my custom image11:29
fenrigand now I can issue X and Xorg, but it doesn't find a screen (when I boot from the anstrom distro from the internal flash, it does find a screen)11:30
fenrigbtw i'm using the serial kernel interface for issueing commands and stuff :)11:31
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fenrigI found out that meta-beagleboard does provide a config file for xorg, and it uses a .bbappend for xorg-xf86-config11:40
fenrigbut for some reason it's not automatically added11:40
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fenrig"beaglebone login: Starting Xserver \n Starting system message bus: open /dev/fb0: No such file or directory"11:51
fenrigthat's what I get :/11:51
pevtf: Hm, You're right it should - for whatever reason the devshell hides the output (?!) - if I do a "quilt series | less" I can see it...! also a bit puzzled as I run my build as a normal user but when I invoke devshell it starts in an xterm as root(!) which I don't remember giving it perms for...11:54
pevtf: Doing some digging around, it seems that if I run the devshell then do a "PSEUDO_UNLOAD=1 bash" in it then everything behaves better after..?!11:58
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Michael__I am trying to create a class which adds a new task after the do_deploy12:16
Michael__The class is the add to the recipe if that functions needs to be run12:16
Michael__when I add the class using "inherit <myclass>" its shows the new task when I run listtasks for the receipe12:17
Michael__However that task is never run12:17
Michael__Can somebody tell me why it is never run ??12:18
Michael__What do I need to do to make it the recipe run that task12:18
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romain_you can use do_deploy_append12:24
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Michael__Hi Is ANYBODY listening?12:30
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bluelightningpev: it's not really running as root12:32
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bluelightningpev: it's under pseudo, so pretending to be root to any program that asks within the shell, but has no additional permissions12:33
bluelightningpev: (this is how images can be created containing files owned by root without you having to run the build system as root)12:33
Michael__I need to implement it as a bbclass so that it is generic12:33
bluelightningMichael__: how are you doing addtask?12:34
Michael__can I post the example here12:34
bluelightningMichael__: use pastebin.com or similar then paste the link here12:34
JaMaRP spending his sabatical herding cats? :))12:35
Michael__its small I will paste here12:37
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Michael__def findfile (sfilename, dir):     import shutil     import fnmatch     import os     matches = []     for root, dirnames, filenames in os.walk(dir):         for filename in fnmatch.filter(filenames, sfilename):             matches.append(os.path.join(root, filename))             return matches  addtask do_signing after do_deploy  python do_signing() {     matches = []     signfiles = []     deploydir = d.getVar('DEPLOY_DIR_IMAGE',12:37
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bluelightningMichael__: just use pastebin please12:37
bluelightningMichael__: it needs to be: addtask signing after do_deploy12:39
Michael__I try that12:40
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Michael__It still doesn't execute it12:44
bluelightningMichael__: maybe add "before do_build" to that as well12:44
Michael__ok now it done it12:45
Michael__thanks a million12:46
Michael__such a simple thing and it took me ages12:46
Michael__I have one more question12:47
Michael__how do I add a dependency to another recipe in a bbclass12:48
Michael__I think it needs to be something like this12:48
Michael__do_func[deptask] =  busybox:do_install12:48
Michael__any ideas?12:49
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bluelightningMichael__: depends what kind of dependency :)12:49
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bluelightningMichael__: is this for a native tool that the function needs to use?12:50
Michael__basicly I need to secure sign the files. but that process to run is in another receipe which must be downloaded first12:50
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bluelightningMichael__: ok, that's pretty straightforward12:51
Michael__can you give an example12:51
bluelightningMichael__: do_signing[depends] += "somerecipe-native:do_populate_sysroot"12:52
ant_workif image:12:52
ant_work        d.setVar('INITRAMFS_TASK', '${INITRAMFS_IMAGE}:do_rootfs')12:52
ant_workdo_configure[depends] += "${INITRAMFS_TASK}"12:52
ant_workthis is kernel.bbclass12:52
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bluelightningMichael__: it's "do_populate_sysroot" that is the key bit, after that the files installed by the recipe are actually installed to the sysroot12:52
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Michael__how do I know where to access the location of the tool in systroot ?12:54
Michael__is it a matter of running the recipe and checking where it is?12:55
bluelightningMichael__: if the other recipe installs its files to standard locations then you shouldn't need to know, the appropriate paths are already in PATH12:56
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Michael__Do you thing this is a good way to secure sign files? basically this class has a variable SRC_SIGN.. which is set in the recipe and then it looks for it in the deploy_dir_image12:59
Michael__I'm not really sure what directory I should be looking13:00
klingerhi. I'm facing some problems building a freescale arm image on my new build-host. bitbake isn't able to create the rootfs13:00
klingerERROR: ld.so: object 'libpseudo.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.13:00
tfMichael__: what exactly are you signing?13:01
klingerBTW, the build-host is a lxc container, which might be the problem13:02
klingerany ideas?13:02
Michael__for example uImage the dtb file daemons13:03
tfuImage would be in the deploy/images dir, but 'normal' packages will not13:05
Michael__where should I look up those others then13:06
tfare you signing the packages or the files in the packages?13:06
Michael__It needs to be done for both13:06
tfthe packages will be in deploy/<pkgtype>/arch13:07
tfbut if you need to sing files in the packages, you probably want to do that during the package build, in the workdir13:07
bluelightningklinger: we have seen other reports of this recently, but I'm not sure what the cause is13:09
bluelightningseebs: any ideas?13:09
tfMichael__: files like uImage you could also sign in the workdir13:09
Michael__Could you give an example13:09
klingerbluelightning: I built the same image on another machine two days ago, so I'm pretty sure LXC is the cause. Maybe some missing capabilities...13:10
bluelightningklinger: is there a way with LXC to report requests on capabilities that aren't enabled/permitted?13:11
tfMichael__: e.g., see the structure of the workdir for the kernel pakcage13:11
tfthe uImage ends up in the image/boot subdir13:11
klingerbluelightning: I'm digging through the lxc documentation right now13:13
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Michael__I dont have an image/boot dir13:16
Michael__in the workdir13:16
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tfin tmp/work/<arch>/<package>13:17
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Michael__yep those are in those package directory13:23
Michael__so those are in $WORKDIR/package/usr/source/uImage13:26
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Michael__so I can access those files for the package directory13:28
Michael__how to do the addtask13:28
Michael__so that it would do it when that directory13:29
Michael__is ready13:29
Michael__addtask do_signn.. after ??13:29
Michael__before ??13:29
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bluelightningMichael__: how are these signatures intended to be verified?13:38
Michael__I dont know the answer to that13:39
bluelightningI see13:39
Michael__basically its secure boot13:39
Michael__I dont know details13:40
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bluelightningMichael__: well, it might be worth noting that some package systems e.g. rpm have built-in support for signing (if enabled)13:40
bluelightningI don't know if that has any bearing upon secure boot13:40
tfMichael__: ..../install == $D, the files there are ready when the do_install task finished13:40
tfso you13:42
tfcan add your signing task after do_install13:42
bluelightningMichael__: alternatively it is pretty easy to extend do_package, just create a function and add it to PACKAGEFUNCS13:43
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bluelightningMichael__: see package.bbclass for reference and buildhistory.bbclass for an example which does just this to look into the contents of each package (before the output package files are created)13:43
tfbluelightning: that might be better option indeed13:44
Michael__ok will take a look13:45
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Michael__those files are huge13:48
bluelightningyes, they have grown quite large over time13:49
Michael__ok I think I understand it. I will try to do it this way13:53
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Michael__big thanks13:54
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romain_Hi erveryone, Does anyone know why qemugl is not present in poky 9.0.0?14:18
rburton_romain_: it was a patch we were carrying that didn't apply anymore, and there are other similar patches actually heading upstream.  decision was to abandon our patch and wait for gl to merge upstream14:20
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rburton_if you desperately need GL, i believe Tizen has a qemu gl patch14:20
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romain_Ok thanks for the answer14:22
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romain_Maybe I will try the Tizen patch in order to enable 3D acceleration14:24
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romain_If I understand the problem, the only gl implementation with poky 9 is with Mesa14:38
rburton_well, that's not a problem, run on x86 hw and you get hardware-accelerated GL.14:39
rburton_other board-specific GL implementations are in the relevant BSP layers14:40
romain_Yes I understand but I try to enable gl  passthrough with qemu14:41
rburton_so i recommend investigating the tizen sdk, i think they have gl passthrough and hopefully with a modern qemu.14:42
romain_Ok I will take a look to the tizen project14:44
romain_Or maybe I will evaluate the performance with virtualbox14:47
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romain_rburton_: Do you think that virtualbox could enable the 3D acceleration with a qemux86 image?14:51
rburton_no idea, never used virtualbox14:51
mulhernIs there a way to skip the regeneration of the configure script step using auto tools?14:54
mulhernIn a package that inherits from autotools, that is.14:54
rburton_mulhern: no.14:54
bluelightning_rburton_: mulhern: er... can't you redefine do_configure to just run oe_runconf?14:55
rburton_yeah, about to say that14:55
rburton_if you really can't do it, then just don't use autotools.bbclass14:55
bluelightning_it's a hack and we try to avoid it, but it does work14:55
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rburton_but ideally you'll fix upstream if their tarball doesn't autoreconf14:55
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scottrifYPTM: Scott Rifenbark joined the call15:00
mulhernmulhern: rburton: They also don't supply a Makefile.am.15:00
bluelightning_YPTM: Paul Eggleton joined15:01
davestYPTM: davest is in the house15:01
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sgw1YTPM: saul is dialing15:02
jmpdelosYPTM: polk joined15:02
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denixYPTM: Denys is here15:02
dvhartYPTM: Darren is on15:02
tomz2YPTM: Tom Z here15:02
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laur1YPTM: LaurentiuP joined15:02
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nitinkYPTM is on the bridge15:02
cristianiorgaYPTM: Cristian present15:02
AlexGYPTM: AlexG here too :)15:02
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belen1YPTM: belen joined15:02
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Song_LiuYPTM: welcome to the meeting, please let me know who's on the bridge15:03
Song_LiuYPTM: Any opens?15:03
rburton_YPTM: ross joining15:04
mulhernYPTM: mulhern joined15:04
frayYPTM: mark joined15:05
darknighteYPTM: Sean H. dialing in now15:05
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jzhang-laptopYPTM: jzhang's on the call15:05
darknighteYPTM: Sean H. has joined15:06
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sgw1fray: there seems to be an rpm/lsb issue 4814, do you have time to look at that?15:07
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fraysorry lost context, which RFC?15:13
pevHi all, am I missing something about devshell? The BSP im using compiles fine if I build the kernel. However if I open the devshell for the kernel and execute a "make uImage" it fails15:14
pevarm-linux-gnueabi-ld: unrecognized option '-Wl,-O115:14
pevShouldn't it be doing exactly the same thing or is something missing in my environment / make invocation?15:15
frayyou need to call the make with the same arguments as the system does..15:15
frayyou can find those arguments using either the run file or the log.15:15
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pevfray: Thanks - which log am I looking for?15:17
fraylikely the build log..15:17
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frayI don't have any builds sitting around to look at right now.. sorry15:19
fray(I cleaned everything up yesterday)15:19
bluelightning_pev: temp/run.do_* under the work directory15:20
mulhernblueligtning_: How redefine?15:20
frayI am15:23
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pevbluelightning_: Nice one, thanks!15:23
bluelightning_mulhern: one sec15:23
pevNow all I need to do is work out who builds the modules...!15:24
kergothugh, there's a number of recipes that suck pam in unconditionally rather than based on the distro feature15:24
sgw_fray did you seem my above about the rpm bug #4814?15:24
yoctiBug https://bugzilla.yoctoproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4814 normal, Medium+, 1.5 M3, mark.hatle, NEW , rpm is broken on 1.5 M2 RC1 lsb images15:24
frayno.. will look15:24
darknightekergoth: fun, fun.15:24
darknightekergoth: approx how many?15:24
frayit looks to me like the rpm database is missing15:25
frayi.e. someone added the clean routine to the install set15:25
bluelightning_mulhern: see do_configure()  in meta/recipes-devtools/tcltk/tcl_8.6.0.bb for an example15:25
sgw_kergoth: Oh great! I found that with util-linux (thus my patch).15:25
rburton_kergoth: that's why i added the warning to libpam :)15:25
frayI thought the pam stuff had been figured out.. :/15:26
rburton_"dude, you're building stuff that won't work"15:26
fraybut yes, everything needs to explicitly state pam requirements15:26
sgw_That's what I thought also, but the util-linux one popped up recently, it might have been a util-linux update or build timing change.15:27
kergothrburton_: that warning is very helpful, thanks for adding it, i had no idea15:27
rburton_kergoth: added it because i spent half a day wondering why my pam stuff wasn't working, before discovering that adding the distro-feature helps ;)15:28
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kergothi hate those days15:28
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rburton_it was one of those "but... why... oooooooooooh. whoops." moments.15:33
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soldoKynhi to all! here "http://downloads.yoctoproject.org/releases/yocto/yocto-1.4/toolchain/x86_64/" there's a cross-toolchain tarball for cross-compiling application. But the arm version is for armv5 based hardware. there's a tarball for armv7 based hardware? thanks!16:11
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lpapphi, is there an option for a bit more verbose output other than this:16:39
lpappCurrently 1 running tasks (165 of 1614):16:39
lpapp0: gcc-cross-initial-4.8.1-r0 do_compile (pid 12859)16:39
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rburton_lpapp: do bitbake whatever|cat and you'll get a bit more detailed16:51
rburton_lpapp: or just tail the logs in the work directories if you want the compile lines16:51
rburton_(which would be crazy when you've got 8 threads and parallel make)16:51
rburton_fwiw, wind river linux does have a realtime log level changing feature16:51
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lpappwell, the user needs to get some feedback stuff is not stuck.16:55
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rburton_lpapp: the flip-side is that previously it did log the stages, and you had no idea what really was happening because it was scrolling past.17:27
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lpapprburton_: that would be fine because you could get an idea at the end of the compilation unit.17:29
lpappjust like gentoo does fwiw.17:29
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lpapprburton_: I need to leave and have to turn the PC off. Is there a way to suspend it, and continue from where it is, tomorrow?17:38
lpappit would be a bit unproductive to start from scratch17:39
lpapphere it is now: Currently 1 running tasks (358 of 1614):17:39
lpapp0: linux-yocto-3.8.13+gitAUTOINC+f121c06ae8_f20047520a-r4.2 do_fetch (pid 19088)17:39
walterssadly git doesn't support resuming checkouts17:40
walterson SIGINT it will remove everything it downloaded17:40
lpappwell, yes, but I can wait for the build to start maybe.17:40
lpappif it is a few minutes maximum.17:40
waltersOE should really export a mechanism to allow --depth=1 clones, for the same reasons as outlined in https://git.gnome.org/browse/jhbuild/commit/?id=40b70d75563f783cf41c403e7c797ab683803c5217:41
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walterslpapp, but broadly speaking, you can just Control-C the thing, and yes, it will pick up where it left off17:41
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LaharHi All, I just build fsl-image-core and trying to put it on P4080PCIE board using tftp server but getting this error -  VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem) readonly on device 1:0. Freeing unused kernel memory: 260k init INIT: version 2.88 booting /etc/init.d/rcS: line 27: /etc/hostname: Read-only file system Starting udev Missing devtmpfs, which is required for udev to run Halting... INIT: Switching to runlevel: 0 INIT: Sending processes t17:54
Laharbluelightning: could you please help me with my question? You have been helping me so you might understand my question better. Pleaseeeeeeeeeeee17:55
bluelightningLahar: sounds like devtmpfs is not enabled in your kernel config17:56
Laharbluelightning: Thank you very much for replying! Any idea how do I enable it?17:56
bluelightningLahar: if you haven't specified the kernel config yourself I suspect the BSP you are using has a bug17:57
Laharbluelightning: oh ok so I should ask freescale people then17:58
bluelightningLahar: I think that's probably the best course yes17:58
Laharbluelightning: Thank you very much for your help! really appreciate it.17:58
rburton_so good news, tizen's gl stuff is here: https://review.tizen.org/git/?p=sdk/emulator/qemu.git;a=tree;hb=5b17056e3d5c144103dd2c3d71466482093bfa8c.  bad news, it's forked from qemu 1.2.018:05
Crofton|workwe need a competition to do things for the YP with millions of $$ as prizes too18:06
rburton_heh, good luck with that :)18:07
seebsThat is an awesome idea. Someone should declare a $5M prize for "best improvement in pseudo's diagnostic messages", for instance.18:08
waltersfairly lame that tizen copied spec files from at least fedora, stripping the changelog18:16
* walters recognizes his own signature in "Die libtool, die." =) https://review.tizen.org/git/?p=profile/ivi/gobject-introspection.git;a=blob;f=packaging/gobject-introspection.spec;h=1da5cbe9d7d4c33dcaf7a712ee0192bdd193918b;hb=HEAD18:16
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labPackages created by yocto are default .rpm... Is it easy to modify packages to be .tar.gz?18:42
fraypackages are created in whatever format you select in your local.conf file18:45
fraysee 'PACKAGE_CLASSES'18:45
labthere is option for 3 package classes. Is this full list?18:48
labperhaps I can set the PACKAGE_CLASSES = package_tar18:54
fraylook at meta/classes .. I believe there is a package_tar, I don't know how well it works18:56
labthats where I found it. I will try run it tomo18:57
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lpappdoes bitbake build with all the cores possible as default, or I need to have the MAKEFLAGS set accordingly?19:02
fraythe system builds for the machine you have configured..19:02
frayor are you talking parallel builds?19:02
lpappyes, parallel builds.19:03
fraytop of the local.conf are settings for parallel package builds and parallel (make) arguments19:03
frayBB_NUMBER_THREADS ?= "32"19:03
frayPARALLEL_MAKE ?= "-j 32"19:03
fray(what I use on my builder..  16 core + HT and 128 GB of ram)19:03
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lpappyou seem to have a pretty hefty machine. :)19:06
frayyup..  very lucky19:06
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lpappis it possible somehow to get the built stuff removed automatically for the corresponding packages?19:33
lpappthe problem is that a fully poky requires a lot of GBs which I may not have available.19:33
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walterslpapp, add INHERIT += "rm_work" to your local.conf19:36
mr_sciencedon't forget downloads...19:38
mr_sciencebut rm_work is probably the biggest space-saving option19:38
mr_sciencei ended up separating OEBASE SCRATCH and DL_DIR on my oo-classic build machine19:41
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lpappwalters: problem is, I already started the build process. Can I remove some dedicated files manually?19:49
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lpappI guess it is the tmp folder into which I should look19:51
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lpappwhat can I safely delete in there?19:58
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mr_scienceduring a build?  that might be a little dicey...20:00
lpappthe build stopped20:01
lpappdue to the space running out.20:01
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mr_sciencebut i would start with tmp/work/[mach]/*20:01
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lpappwhen is local.conf evaluated?20:02
lpappif I set "rm_work" now, will it get evaluated if I restart the core image creation?20:02
mr_sciencewhen bitbake is launched if i understand your question...20:02
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mr_sciencelpapp: yup20:03
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lpappI mean, does it even remove the old works?20:03
mr_scienceprobably leave existing cruft tho20:03
lpappor it is just taking the new builds into account for removal?20:03
mr_sciencethe latter sounds correct20:03
lpappQ: How do I create my own source download mirror ?20:04
lpappA: Make a complete build with these variables set in your conf/local.conf:20:04
lpappthat is a bit ambiguous, isn't it ...20:04
mr_sciencedeleting everything under tmp/work should be safe...20:04
lpappwhat conf is it referring to?20:04
lpappCan someone update the wiki to be more straight-forward/20:04
lpappit is not clear to me what it is referring to.20:04
lpappright the first question.20:05
lpappsorry, second.20:05
mr_scienceconf/local.conf is created for each build you run "oe-init... foo" for20:05
lpappI cannot set stuff globally?20:06
mr_scienceso it's pretty much local.conf for tuning, bblayers.conf for layer config, etc20:06
lpappI mean, rm work is not really target specific.20:06
lpappit is a global behavior I would like to have.20:06
mr_sciencewhat you mean by "global" is probably in the machine defaults20:06
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lpappmachine default means?20:06
mr_sciencemeta-machine layers should have a conf/[distro|machine] set of config files20:07
mr_scienceeg, => https://github.com/sarnold/meta-raspberrypi/tree/master/conf20:08
lpappwell, I have several meta folders.20:08
lpappthat still does not make it clear.20:08
lpappbesides, by global, I really mean global. :)20:08
mr_sciencenot all are meta-machine tho20:08
lpappi.e. not separately for each meta, etc.20:08
lpappI have no clue what you mean by machine.,20:08
mr_sciencesomething under poky/conf then?20:09
lpapppoky/conf means?20:09
mr_sciencein the example, raspberrypi is a machine20:09
lpappYocto is a complex stuff as I see. :)20:09
mr_scienceis there a poky/conf dir?20:09
lpappfirst of all, I cloned poky.20:09
mr_sciencei'm not home right now, so i can't check easily20:10
lpappsecond, I do not have a conf file inside the poky folder.. I checked that as that would sound natural for a global conf.20:10
mr_sciencea conf *folder*20:10
lpappfolder is a file.20:11
mr_sciencetechnically everything is a file in linux...20:11
mr_sciencelook in poky/meta-yocto/conf20:12
lpapplook at what?20:13
mr_sciencethe conf files, etc20:13
mr_sciencethat's probably the closest to  "global" yocto config20:14
lpappcannot we just have a global conf right in the root folder, or ~ ? :D20:14
lpappwhy is it this complex?20:14
lpappI would not imagine setting up a global setting is this unusual.20:14
lpappanyway, could you please fix the wiki?20:16
lpappI understand it is a bit vague for newcomers.20:16
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lpappI wonder why there is no ~/.yoctorc or concept.20:25
lpappthe current establishment seems 1) Weird with linux culture 2) Not intuitive at first glance.20:26
walterslpapp, having written a build system that i just switched from ~/.config to in-build-dir config, it's because you really want to be able to do two builds at once20:28
waltersstable and development branch, etc20:28
lpappthose are not exclusive ....20:28
lpappI spent 30-60 minutes with it20:29
lpappand I still have not got the faintest idea about where to put and what to avoid the GB hell.20:30
lpappseems it did not survive the automated stop ... http://paste.kde.org/~lpapp/792686/20:33
* lpapp sighs20:33
* lpapp starts again from scratch that maybe 30 GB will be enough ....20:33
lpappcan someone please give me a file path where I can put an "rm work" config that will be valid for any kinda build?20:36
lpappIMO, this should be one of the very first FAQ questions.20:36
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mulhernlpapp: /poky/build/conf/local.conf21:05
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mr_sciencelpapp: i'd try poky/meta/conf21:22
lpappmulhern: mr_science I already checked the quick guide in the meantime.21:23
mr_sciencewell, local.conf would be the typical place but it's not a "global" conf as you've requested21:23
lpappwe deserve a global conf21:24
lpappplease bring the ~/.yoctorc style back.21:24
mr_sciencedepends on whether all *.conf files are read or not21:25
lpappmulhern: there is no build folder initially ...21:25
mr_scienceyou could try adding one in poky/meta/conf and see what happens21:25
mr_sciencedo a "bitbake -e" and see if gets picked up21:25
lpappmr_science: I really do not wanna mess locally.21:26
lpappI will get back to yocto in my hobby when ~/.yoctorc exists.21:26
mr_scienceor you can live with local.conf for now...21:26
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mr_scienceyocto is my side project too, as long as we're using oe-classic for work stuff...21:27
lpappit is such a basic feature that even minimalistic programs implemented....21:27
lpappI really cannot understand how it is missing for Yocto.21:27
mr_scienceit would say odds are it's not "missing" rather it's hidden somewhere not obviuous to us...21:27
lpappcat meta/conf/local.conf21:28
lpappINHERIT += "rm_work"21:28
lpappit is so well hidden that it makes users' life a royal pain. ;)21:28
mr_sciencecheck with bitbake -e | grep local21:28
lpappif I use git clean -fdx21:29
lpappit will be gone.21:29
lpappso I need to redo /all/ the time for the ... sake. :)21:29
kergoth.yoctorc would be global to all your builds, not local.21:29
mr_sciencenot sure i understand that one...21:29
kergothif you want an equivalent, do what i do, add ~/.oe to BBPATH in your bblayers.conf and create a ~/.oe/conf/site.conf21:29
lpappmr_science: using git master21:29
lpappmr_science: what do you think will happen to the local non-versioned files?21:30
lpappwhen you clean up the repository for good?21:30
mr_sciencei'd say try what kergoth said21:30
kergothfirst of all, you can put your build dirs anywhre, not just inside poky21:30
lpappI just wanna build it.21:30
kergothi didn't tell you to modify the git source21:30
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kergothso shove your yelling up your ass21:30
lpappI wanna have local global config without touching the damn source.21:30
kergothlisten to what i say, not what you want to hear21:30
kergothyou do not have to modify git in any way21:31
lpappyes, you have to.21:31
kergothi run plenty of builds with those dirs set entirely read only21:31
lpappas for me, Yocto is is a pet project at this point. :)21:31
lpapponce it can have proper local global configuration, I will consider it.21:32
lpappit is such a basic feature.21:32
lpappthe source should be able to parse a ~/.yoctorc off-hand.21:32
kergothit can already do waht you want, you just don't want to bother to learn enough to accomplish it21:32
lpappkergoth: you do not even understand the feature21:32
lpappyou are talking about build dirs21:32
lpappwho cares about build dirs?21:32
lpappI wanna use the default stuff21:32
lpappwith a local global config21:32
mr_scienceno, he's telling you how to do what you want with the current implementation21:33
lpappyou did not even understand that simple bit.21:33
Crofton|workthe concept of suggesting kergoth does not know something is laughable21:33
kergothi already told you how to accmoplish what you want. it's a one line change to your build direcotry to make it obey a file in your homedir. trivial.21:33
lpappmr_science: I DO NOT WANNA royal pain.21:33
kergothif you're too lazy to do that, i really can't help you21:33
Crofton|workkergoth, /ignore him21:33
lpappmr_science: you can work around everything, but I do not wanna.21:33
lpappI wanna have a basic feature present off-hand.21:33
* kergoth rolls eyes and goes back to real work :)21:33
mr_sciencethat doesn't sound like a workaround...21:33
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lpappmr_science: have you ever used essential unix tools?21:34
lpappwhich handle a config file in the home directory off-hand?21:34
lpappinteresting, they did not do the way yocto is hacking around, and they have been around for decades.21:34
mr_scienceonly since the early 90's...21:34
lpappright, tell me why vim handles ~/.vimrc off-hand?21:35
lpappor feh, ~/.fehrc21:35
lpappet cetera21:35
mr_sciencein fact, most modern "things" have gone away from the ~/.foorc concept21:35
lpappkde4 is still having config stuff in the home folder.21:35
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mr_sciencelook in ~/config and ~/local21:35
lpappor in /var/21:35
kergotha lot of folks don't understand the inherent flexibility which is a priority for bitbake, nor do they grasp that it's intended to meet all sorts of needs. one of the original design requirements for OE was that it was able to be entirely self contained, as buildroot is21:35
ant_homelpapp, you fail to understand the same user could run many parallel builds in different dirs21:36
lpappant_home: huh?!21:36
lpappmr_science: please do not play word games21:36
lpappmr_science: I believe, you understand the concept of "home config".21:36
lpappa dedicated stuff which is parsed off-hand by the software.21:37
mr_scienceyeah, just no more umpty-ump .rc files everywhere...21:37
lpappbut honetly, it could be in etc, et cetera... could not care less.21:37
kergoth"local.conf" is named the way it is becaues that's what it is, local to the build. if you want to configure site-wide, you can use site.conf.21:37
lpappall I care, I wanna run stuff off-hand with out-of-box config, and I expect it to work just like in many other projects ...21:37
mr_sciencestill, kergoth gave you the answer you need, maybe just not the one you wanted21:37
kergothI can see why one might want it to obey a dotfile, but it'd be difficult to meet everyone's needs with hardcoded behavior, which is why bitbake obeys BBPATH and BBFILES, to provide the necessarily flexiblity21:37
kergothfurther, yocto is often just a starting point, not an end goal21:38
lpappmr_science: no, he explained a workaround21:38
kergothmany projects build their own setup scripts and tools on top of it, such as angstrom and shr21:38
lpappwhich I explained in the very beginning, I do not care.21:38
mr_scienceno, how you use a tool *correctly* i would not call a workaround21:38
lpappyes, it makes so much sense to set "rm_work" many times when I wanna have a global config21:39
kergothPersonally, I find stuff to get irritated with in oe, yocto, and bitbake on a regular basis, I just don't think this is a valid instance of that, nor am I seeing a use case that'd be met by introducing use of a dotfile that can't already be met with greater flexibility by what it does today21:39
lpappor make it totally tied to the build or source tree ....21:39
mulhernIs there anyway I can get do_qa_configure to be more informative?21:39
kergothCrofton|work: heh, there's plnety of stuff I don't know, even about yocto (package_rpm is voodoo, i say!) but the implication that I don't understand how a dotfile works *is* laughable :)21:40
mulhernIt says: This autoconf log indicates errors, it looked at host include and/or library paths while determining system capabilities.21:41
lpappmr_science: anyway, I already lost my motivation to provide feedback21:41
kergoththere's an argument to be made that bitbake doesn't really follow unix philosophy21:42
lpappthis was a very hostile way of turning it down.21:42
kergothmulhern: the autoconf log is config.log in the build directory, you should be able to examine that to find the problematic compiler execution21:42
mulhernkergoth: What kind of thing should I be looking for?21:42
kergothas the message says, it's poking into your build machine instead of the sysroot. e.g. looking in /usr/include, /usr/lib, whatever21:43
kergothbest to check for problematic -I and -L21:43
* lpapp tries to avoid Yocto as much as possible until there is a truly global way of configuring it.21:43
kergothcould be something hardcoded in one of hte makefiles21:43
* lpapp does not wish to spend time to configure it each time something changes21:44
kergothtough to crosscompile for arm if it's poking at x86 libraries :) (or what hve you)21:44
kergothI could see an argument for moving just the settings which are not build specific, and which govern bitbake behavior exclusively into a dotfile, but at the time we were writing the code, we felt that introducing a second config file foramt when we already had one which we used everywhere would be unnecessary, from what i recall21:45
mr_sciencemulhern: what is in your recipe now for autoconf?  i've had to add some autoreconf stuff before using the --cross argument21:46
kergothevery other week i feel like throwing bitbake out a window, but the rest of hte time i thank god i have it, because there just isn't anything else that meets the same needs. it has its annoyances and quirks, but it gets the jobd one, and the way the yocto project is helping compnaies to stop wasting money on the baseline setup which isn't their value add, thereby letting them focus on what *is*, is lovely21:46
lpappin fact, I cannot mention a project where the configuration is this tiresome when possible.21:47
lpappand it is totally os agnostic observation.21:47
lpappcoming to Yocto was a de-evolution to me in this sense. :)21:48
mr_sciencei guess i don't understand why you're so stuck on the preconceived idea of how it should be configured...21:49
lpappbecause I think with user hat on, not developer?21:50
lpappas the end users are actually users?21:50
mulhernmr_science: Nothing special, actually. I had to move an aclocal.m4 that came in the distribution to an acinclude.m4 so it wouldn't be destroyed.21:50
lpappand as it seems, it is an architectural issue ... :(21:50
kergothmulhern: make sure that didn't inclue other non-local macros that should be pulled from other packages. when oyu run aclocal, it pulls macros from all over and shoves them into aclocal.m4, so if their build ever used it, it could have more than just the bits you want kept. really depend on the buildsystem in question, of course.21:51
kergothe.g. read it and make sure there's no AC_PROG_LIBTOOL and crap :)21:51
mr_sciencei've hit a handful of autotools-based recipes where i had similar errors21:51
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mr_scienceusually doing autoreconf with the right args takes care of it21:52
* lpapp should check for existing bugreports in the hope of having had this reported already with many votes on it21:52
ant_homelpapp, please stop ranting and try to understand how it works instead21:53
ant_homethere is no way your local.conf get rewritten after git pull21:54
frayif you have suggestions on making something better, that's one thing.. but just complaining doesn't solve anyone's problem21:54
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lpappI already told the master idea from the minute first.21:54
* fray routinely uses the same local.conf (and other configurations) for multiple builds and multiple machines21:54
lpappplease stop this "just complaining" incorrect tsuff21:55
lpappit is not constructive.21:55
lpappant_home: I already understood what it means, but that is vastly different to what I need21:55
lpappant_home: please read back, and try to understand the whole conversation without half-reading it.21:55
fraylpapp, yes your complaing is not currently constructive.. what do you want the system to do, what doesn't it do for you?21:55
ant_homeyou're right I lack first part of it, though I get a bad impression21:56
lpappfray: :(21:56
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lpappfray: you did not bother to read the conversation through. :(21:56
lpappI wrote at least 5-10 times what I propose.21:56
lpappand then why the current system is worse.21:56
fraySorry, I'm not going to scroll back 14 pages to find the start..21:56
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frayI looked back over the last 5 minutes starting with complaints about somethign VIM related..21:56
lpappif you are not interested in the proposal and problem, why do you ask ?21:56
frayI still don't see what the problem is you are having and what you want21:56
lpappif you keep rolling another page without reading the previous pages, it will get worse for others to read through ...21:57
b46258the problem seems to be that quite a bit of disk space is used, and lpapp would like to automatically run rm_work as part of every build anywhere on the system to conserve disk space.21:57
mr_sciencefray: he wants a .yoctorc file to work instead of kergoth's answer21:57
mr_scienceanything more than that got lost in the noise...21:58
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fraysounds like you want a local - local.conf to be loaded...21:58
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mr_sciencea "global" local.conf...21:58
fray'local' as in his own, vs what everyone else uses21:59
lpappglobal or semi-global, yes.21:59
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lpapp"he wants" is a bit underestimation, a few people agreed upon this when I mentioned.22:00
frayour product(s) generate the local.conf for the user.. but in essence they have a series of include/require statements in addition to what the local.conf sample normally has you configure22:00
frayso my recommendation is simply use an include/require at the beginning/end of your local.conf to pickup your site config22:00
ant_homelpapp, see this usecase: I'm building Angstrom with rm_work and oe-core without it22:01
frayor if that is too complicated, put it in your own layer, and have the layer's layer.conf pull in those ocnfiguration settings22:01
lpappfray: so you propose two steps instead of one22:01
lpappsurely, your user hat is off?22:01
frayno, I have you two alternatives22:01
frayactually three..22:01
mr_scienceevery new build needs a layer config22:01
fray1) write your own configuration program that generates the appropriate local.conf for your projects..22:02
fray2) echo "include /home/user/.yoctorc" >> conf/local.conf22:02
mr_scienceadding your own layer config is about the same as what kergoth said...22:02
fray3) make your own layer with the include (or YOUR configuration) and include the layer22:02
lpappok, let us agree to disagree22:02
lpappI will look for a bugreport and vote, and invite others who agree with me.22:02
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lpapponce, it gets somewhat reasonable vote numbers, I will bring it up on the mailing list.22:03
lpappor perhaps even before...22:03
b46258...and if it doesn't? :-)22:03
* fray waits to see your proposed code....22:03
lpappthing is, telling 3 steps to the end user instead of 1 is like taken the user hat off.22:03
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fraynot three steps, three -ways- of doing the same thing..22:04
lpappfray: seriously, you have not realized I am not proposing code?22:04
fraybitbake/oe/yocto project gives you all of the rope you could ever need to do whatever you need..22:04
frayit's up to you to hang yourself22:04
lpappcode is seconday here.22:04
lpappwe are discussing *use case requirements*.22:04
b46258lpapp: I think everyone is aware you are not offering code.22:04
frayYou can have your use case requirements..  if you really need it.. implement it and submit it.. don't expect others to..22:05
fraybitbake/oe/yocto project work by people submitting RFCs and code..22:05
lpappb46258: 23:04  * fray waits to see your proposed code....22:05
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lpappb46258: that was a joke?22:05
lpappfray: do not be hostile.22:05
frayif you think something is useful, start with an RFC.. hey I think this would be useful..22:05
lpappfeedback is welcome.22:05
lpappread the documentation.22:05
fraythen submit code to implement it..22:05
b46258lpapp: not specifically a joke, but an ironic pointer to what would have a chance at changing minds.22:05
frayI'm being serious, just complaining about a problem (real or not) won't get it fixed..22:05
lpappb46258: I do not follow.22:06
frayunless your problem happens to be someone elses problem.. they're not going to work on a solution22:06
lpappfray: no one is complaining.22:06
lpappyou brought up the "complaining hostile" handling of a proposal.22:06
lpappI outlined my problems with the current way, and I explained why a one-step shot for any build, git, whatsoever scenarios.22:07
lpappit is not called complaining.22:07
lpappit is called discussion.22:07
lpappit is called feedback22:07
fraycurrently if someone wants help setting up local.conf, their solution is to use one of the many oe/yocto based distributions that has their own "helper" infrastructure, or use hob..22:07
lpappit is called helping the project to move forward from my point of view.22:07
b46258at first glance, this seems like a very circuituous way to address the actual problem you had, lpapp22:07
lpappok, I will stop providing feedback here now.22:08
lpapphonestly, I spend my leisure time to improve things, and this is all I get.22:08
lpappI do not need this.22:08
lpappand by this, I do not mean disagreement because that is natural.22:08
b46258and I think discussion got difficult and complaining easy when most people agreed there are ways to solve your problems and you said they are not acceptable.22:08
lpappb46258: please stop this shit22:09
frayexactly..  there are many possible solutions within the existing architecture/implementation.  If none of them are adequate, then explain why they're not...22:09
lpappthere is no complaining outside your brain and fray's.22:09
lpappfray: sigh, I did many times, and there are several people here who understood.22:10
lpappplease ask them, I cannot help you apparently.22:10
lpappI accept that others disagree with my proposal as it seemed about a few people.22:10
lpappbut I do not accept not listening to my words.22:10
lpappor well, actually I do not care.22:10
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lpappit is so obviously not about whether I can hack stuff around22:14
lpappor whether it is possible.22:14
ant_homelpapp, we are sorry for having put you in that bad mood. We'v got your point, you didn't want to see ours. Now pls go trolling elsewhere then maybe send a bugreport or better an RFC.22:14
lpappthere is a huge difference between possible and a very good solution.22:14
b46258I'm not trying to argue with you.  You've been very clear about what problems you've had, and what you think would improve that.22:14
lpappant_home: sorry, but I need to put you on ignore.22:14
lpappant_home: as you are not being objective here.22:14
ant_homelpapp, everyone here is open to new proposal. Send it and it will be preciously considered as always22:15
lpappI will read cautiously next time the Yocto manual when it is writing "feedback is welcome"22:16
lpappit is here turning out to be called "trolling" for one.22:16
lpappthat makes me sad...22:16
lpappb46258: good to hear..22:17
b46258but "please stop this shit" does not really make me sympathetic to you.22:17
lpappb46258: you started, not me.22:18
lpappyou accused me with "complaining" which is a well, very rude and unfriendly to say the least.22:18
lpappwhere is the good faith? :)22:18
b46258I was explaining where the good faith went, actually.22:19
lpappanyway, I need to be careful with "feedback is welcome" in the Yocto project.22:19
b46258"most people agreed there are ways to solve your problems and you said they are not acceptable."22:19
lpappb46258: I do not wanna know your bad faith if good is "accusing others with complaining".22:19
b46258maybe complaining is a really horrible thing to you, I dunno. *shrug*22:20
lpappbut yes, "stop this bad faith" would have been more adequate.22:20
b46258I don't much mind it, but it *is* different from constructive criticism or feedback.22:20
lpappyes, those are good faith, and you had a bad IMO.22:22
b46258I am vastly more interested in addressing the actual problem you had, and working to make it not a problem, than I am with your proposed solution.22:22
b46258I am not particularly concerned with what motivations you ascribe to me, either. :-)22:22
lpappwhy do you continue if you are not interested in improving the situation?22:23
lpappand no, putting stuff in the build is NOT a solution.22:23
lpappwhat if you remove the build dir as I said before?22:24
lpappsay, in a month?22:24
lpappand you can back in half a year?22:24
lpappyou need to re-read everything?22:24
lpappinstead of just storing an intermittent config file, and be happy when you come back?22:24
lpappsurely, that would be tiresome?22:24
lpappor if you remove the build dir, and create another one elsewhere with different name, etc?22:24
fraymaybe that is the problem, you are viewing the configuration file as intermittent.. it's not intended to be..22:24
lpappor what if the build dir is accessible by one user?22:25
lpappby the config should be taken into account for each unix user?22:25
b46258my reading of the chat log is that the actual problem you had was running out of disk space22:25
fraythe configuration (local.conf) -is- the build control file, and what you would version in your local git (or similar) repository to ensure reproducability22:25
lpappThose problems are currently unresolved.22:25
lpappmy proposal would solve those as far as I can tell.22:25
kergothhe was complaining earlier about using git clean -f and having his local.conf and all blown away, i tried to explain that he can put the build directory wherever he wants, but he didn't seem to grasp the concept22:25
b46258adding rm_work to the build steps is the current solution, and the places in which you would need to add that are too tiresome and changing.22:25
lpappb46258: current sucky solution, yes.22:26
frayyes, I never use the build directory in the same location as my git tree (poky, oe-core/bitbake or anything else).. build is always outside22:26
lpappb46258: I need more than a sucky situation.22:26
lpappas I explained at least 10 times now.22:26
frayand that gives me the ability to put my build tree into a repository if it's a build I need to reproduce in the future22:26
lpappthat is why I proposed a way for which I have not heard a rebruttal yet.22:26
b46258but the *problem* is related to disk space, and your proposed solution is "~/.yoctorc"22:26
lpappthe problem is explicitly not related to disk space22:27
frayone of the objections of the community is that sourcing in a ~/.yoctorc would cause a build to not be reproducable with different user environments..22:27
kergothmaybe he doesn't realize that the setup scripts create the build directory default to your current directory, not relative to oe-core/poky?22:27
* kergoth shrugs22:27
fraysince by definition ~/.yoctorc is user specific22:27
lpappthe problem is related to local global configuration.22:27
lpappdisk space is just one of those ...22:27
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lpappagain, many projects managed it nicely... I am sure yocto can too.22:27
lpappit is not a big deal, and fairly trivial concept IMHO.22:28
fraywhen creating a project you expect to reproduce, you would also need to backup not only the local.conf, but the 'global configuration' as well..22:28
b46258you say it's just one, and yet... what else do you want to put in there? :-)22:28
lpappand it is not "unix/linux" way as someone raised earlier... that just did not make sense to me.22:28
kergothIt's really easy to forget you left that laying around. we defaulted to pulling in ~/.oe/ for mel and some users had weird things happening different from what the customers hit because they forgot they had a site.lconf lnaying around there :)22:28
fraykergoth, thats why we don't use that solution.. everything needed to reproduce a build is local to the build (project) directory..22:29
* kergoth nods22:29
frayyou can safely wipe the 'tmp', but everything else should be stored in your SCM22:29
lpappb46258: see the faq for further ones.22:29
lpappdo not get stuck on one particular configuration when we are discussing a configuration architecture.22:29
kergothThe only things I could see bieng safe to set in such a file would be things like parallel make and the # of threads, but even that is really bound to the machine, not the user / home directory, so use of an nfs homedir across different hosts would cause problems22:30
* kergoth wanders off22:30
lpappfray: you are not making any sense22:31
lpappI already mentiond /etc and ~ several times.22:31
lpappof course, both make sense with different scenarios.22:31
lpappjust one of those, different users can decide about different rm_work policies22:31
b46258lpapp: I think you are confused.  I am well aware that you are talking about configuration architecture.  On the other hand, I don't think that's a particularly good way to solve the problem that led you to identify the lack of ~/.yoctorc as a problem.22:31
frayif you set variables outside of your build directory.. you have to store those in order to reproduce the build in the future..22:31
fraythis has nothing to do with rm_work, or the parallel build configurations..22:31
lpappit has exactly everything to do with configs.22:32
fraythose three just happen to be ones that are believed to be safe to change22:32
lpappwhat the user prefer.22:32
lpappdo you think git accidentally has config files?22:32
lpappglobal, local, et cetera?22:32
lpappjust for joke?22:32
frayYou aren't understanding me22:32
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fraymkdir my-project22:32
fraycd my-project22:32
lpappcorrect, I am totally lost.22:32
fraygit init22:32
fray~/git/poky/oe-init-env build22:33
fraygit add build22:33
fraygit commit -s -m "initial commit"22:33
fraymake changes from there forward..22:33
frayyou can add to your .gitignore the build/tmp (and other directories) as needed22:33
lpappb46258: you are entitled to forget many open source projects solving this very problem the way I propose.22:33
frayyou can then come back in two years.. and downloads the same poky version.. and reproduce the system22:33
frayonce you run oe-init-build-env your project is now configured and set22:34
lpappfray: I already wrote several times build and source folders are not persistent22:34
lpapphome and etc area are.22:34
b46258I haven't forgotten them, I'm just thinking about the user.22:34
lpappfor configuration.22:34
frayat that point you make changes to your configuration, but any change has the chance of triggering full rebuilds if the change is determined to affect the distribution configuration22:34
lpappb46258: I think, you do not, and that is the root cause of my issue.22:34
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fraylpapp, I disagree completely..  home and etc is not persistent.. but SCM controlled build folders are22:35
* lpapp is stepping aside22:35
b46258lpapp: would you agree that running out of disk space like this is a problem?22:38
lpappas I wrote several times, no.22:40
lpappand actually, it is so totally annoying to spend this much time with fundamentally broken config stuff that I might just extend the config parser whatever language it is written in.22:40
lpappand if nothing else, I can apply this patch on vanilla yocto. ;)22:41
fraythere is nothing to 'extend' in the parser..22:41
frayto read your magic ~/yocto.rc, go in and modify the base system configuration to load it22:42
frayedit meta/conf/bitbake.conf22:42
frayadd at the top22:42
frayinclude ~/.yoctorc22:43
fraysave that as your local patch and it'll likely work..22:43
fray(I don't know off hand if '~' is resolved.. if not, that's easy to fix as well)22:43
lpappsorry, but you are wrong.22:44
lpappI will not edit anything at all22:44
lpappnor will I require that from the end user.22:44
frayyou just said you are going to edit the parser!22:44
frayA change to the 'parser' won't be accepted upstream..22:44
fraya change to bitbake.conf or a similar existing file may be22:44
lpappafter my patch, the software should implicitly handle dedicated semi-global, and global files.22:44
fraythat's what I just told you how to do22:45
fraybitbake -- the engine loads the local.conf, bblayers.conf and bitbake.conf file.. everything else happens based on those three22:45
lpappwhich is what I call extending the parser, as in allow the parser to parse other files...22:46
frayso you need to add your 'global' inclusion into one of those three, only bitbake.conf isn't dynamically generated by the oe-init-build-env22:46
lpappthere is everything to extend around the parser. :)22:46
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lpappinitially, it could be optional, and let us see what feedback it would be getting later ...22:47
fraygo for it.. I can tell you right now it won't be accepted as a change to bitbake by the community.22:47
lpappluckily it does not matter ... ;-)22:48
frayI gave you a way to have a constructive conversation within the community, and modify a file that is reasonable22:48
frayactually it does matter22:48
frayIf you change something that the community won't accept, you are forking the project.. and at that point you are on your own22:48
frayif you are willing to maintain your own fork, great go for it.....22:49
lpapphmm, you have apparently never heard about dpatch, quilt, et cetera ....22:49
fraybut if you want the advantage of the open source community you need to work with them22:49
lpappoh, your opinion is THE open source community?22:49
lpappand other open people's opinion cannot be open source community to work with?22:49
frayI'm talking -any- open source community22:49
frayif you fork, you are on your own for maintenance..22:50
frayone patch is easy..22:50
fray100 patches is difficult22:50
fray1000 patches is impossible22:50
* lpapp is pointint to quilt and dpatch for reading for those who do not understand and talk about forks.22:50
fray(btw using quilt and dpatch for forking more then a couple of patches isn't worth the pain.. use git and your own branch)22:51
lpappbesides, this is not the first scenario when irc guys were too harsh22:51
lpappbut when I brought the subject to the mailing list (i.e. more official form), people were on my side.22:51
lpappthat is just how unfortunately irc works... rude and harsh people for constructive feedback at times.22:51
lpappdo not think you can discourage me to bring it up there, and maybe even got accepted ... ;-)22:52
frayI'm going to be blunt.. the feedback was constructive for the first few messages.. then you ignored us.. and have been arguing ever since22:52
lpappthere is a huge difference between ignoring (what you did when you did not wanna read my posts), and disagreeing.22:52
frayAt this point, I'm happy to encourage others to bring their feedback to us.. we've made a large number of improvements over feedback..  but not everything sent back to the community is going to be implemented for a variety of reasons22:52
lpappI of course read all the posts, and title them as "makes no sense" to me.22:53
frayI see no "posts", only IRC messages22:53
lpappthat is not quite called ignoring ....22:53
seebsI've certainly encountered some pretty hostile IRC channels, but I've been pretty happy with #yocto. People are pretty patient with my occasional fussy days or silly questions.22:53
frayIRC is no different then a long running hallway conversation.. occasionally you need to summarize for people who weren't in the hallways when you staretd22:53
lpappfray: it is very different ....22:54
lpappyou have the log to prepare ......22:54
lpappthat makes a huuuuuge difference ...22:54
lpappyou cannot bring the time back in the hallway ....22:54
fraywhat log?  I don't log IRC... I just have a couple of screen scroll back22:54
frayhe beginning of this is long gone22:55
lpappwhen you did not wanna read the message, it was only a few lines above you....22:55
lpappI can post the log if you do not believe me ....22:55
frayI told you I scrolled back and saw something about vim and couldn't figure out what you wanted..22:55
frayI asked you to summarize.. easy..22:55
lpappalso, you should probably consider logging stuff as that makes the world a lot better to place to live at ....22:56
lpappthis practical example proves that, too ......22:56
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lpappto live in*22:56
fraysorry, I'm not going to log IRC..  I have absolutely no reason to.. you are free to log whatever you want22:56
lpappthen you have no rights to ask for summarization if you do not care to help yourself ....22:57
fray(If I'd been logging IRC, I'd have gigabytes of useless logs by this point.. it's simply not worth it)22:57
ant_homelpapp, never ever go for discussions on #beagle irc channel for any reason ;) We aren't truly the bad guys after all ;)22:58
lpappfray: but your idea does not make sense to me anyway....22:59
lpappconf file is not meant to be doing controling logic ....22:59
frayyes it is22:59
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lpapplike checking if a file exists, and include conditionally, et cetera ....22:59
frayin bitbake, the .conf files are used to load in everythign that is needed..22:59
fray(for the global configuration space)22:59
ndecyeah.. i am literaly amazed by how nice this channel is. i don't know any other place that would offer such a great patience in similar quite cumbersome circonstances... congrats #yocto ;-)22:59
lpappndec: clearly, you have never visited qt and kde channels. :)23:00
lpappI tried to help the project, and I got "complaining, trolling"23:00
lpappjust two of those...23:00
fraylook at the meta/bitbake.conf.. search for 'require conf/' and 'include conf/'23:00
lpappI do not frequently get those in other channels ....23:00
frayyou will see it is dynamically looking for a variety of configuration files and loading them if they exist..23:01
frayrequire says it must exist, or it's an error..23:01
frayinclude says load it if it exists, otherwise ignore it23:01
lpappfray: looks like another architectural pitfall to me ...23:01
frayfeel free to redo the architecture23:01
lpappwell, for me config is config for a reason ... because a simple designer or even artist could use it without any programming skills, including scripting stuff...23:03
lpappif you put logic into it other than just configuration, it is called a script in my book ....23:03
frayyes, there is plenty of scripting possible in the bitbake  .conf file format23:04
frayand BTW you don't even have to name your .conf files, ending in .conf.. that is just a convention.. you could call them all bob if you wanted23:04
lpappyeah, so it makes so much sense to call a script file conf by default ......23:05
* fray goes and renames everything to .script23:05
lpappso it is worse than I thought....23:06
* fray wonders if he should explain what the magic INHERIT variable does... and how the bbclasses can affect the global variable space23:06
lpappit is not about a broken conf stuff, but there is actually no config interface....23:06
lpapponly scripting.....23:06
lpappperhaps I should stop the conversation to avoid the further bad surprises for today ... :-)23:07
lpappalso, your worry about reproducability is void by the fact that, you cannot guarantee everyone builds with the same core numbers anyhow...23:10
frayif you are truely concerned about reproducable builds.. you don't change your paralell numbers..23:11
fraywe just know from autobuilder results that it's safe to do so23:12
lpappwhich is very unreal expectation to put it mildly ...23:12
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lpappalso, I am not only not truly concerned, but it was you bringing that topic up ...23:12
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lpappfwiw, meta/conf/local.conf did not work ...23:15
frayI said to edit meta/conf/bitbake.conf23:16
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bluelightningI may be repeating part of what is said above but if you don't want to edit what comes from the poky git repository you should not be touching bitbake.conf...23:19
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fraybluelightning ya, we're past that point..23:19
frayhe's convinced he has to edit the parser.. I'm trying to explain that won't be accepted23:20
bluelightningI have skimmed over the scrollback23:20
bluelightningthere's no question, we have a steep learning curve23:21
bluelightningbut a lot of the way the system works is pretty well established and for pretty good reasons23:21
mr_sciencenot so steep as all that...  previous experience with classic helps, but the current docs are pretty damn good imho...23:22
fraydiff --git a/meta/conf/bitbake.conf b/meta/conf/bitbake.conf23:22
frayindex 62a3936..a496f0d 10064423:22
fray--- a/meta/conf/bitbake.conf23:22
fray+++ b/meta/conf/bitbake.conf23:22
fray@@ -1,3 +1,5 @@23:22
fray+include ${@os.getenv("HOME")}/.oerc.conf23:22
fraythere that works23:22
* fray learned something new.. the file does need to end in .conf23:23
mr_sciencei still don't know sh*t, but that doesn't stop me from cranking out the rpi builds23:23
mr_sciencethat said, i do try to "conform" to the bbappend guidance, etc23:24
bluelightningmr_science: we've certainly tried to improve things, and will continue to do so23:24
bluelightningmr_science: thanks, I'll pass on your comment about the docs to scottrif :)23:24
mr_scienceoverall, yocto/poky docs are quite a bit better than the old stuff23:25
lpappfray: you may, but someone else said osmething different.23:25
lpapp22:23 < mr_science> lpapp: i'd try poky/meta/con23:25
lpappand we were discussing local.confs back then.23:25
fraywhat I posted before will work in -your- project's local.conf as well23:25
kergothamazing what a difference it makes having actual technical writers. open source projects tend to de-emphasize the non-code work, to their detriment, really..23:25
lpappfray: I really do not need that complexity as an end user.23:25
frayso bitbake doesn't parse '~'.. so you need to use the HOME environment to get into your home directory23:26
lpappfray: so, I will not actually do that.23:26
* mr_science uses $HOME in bblayers.conf23:26
lpappbecause I think it makes no sense as an end user.23:26
frayso one line is more complex then you hacking on the parser.. ok.. go for it23:26
* kergoth chuckles23:26
lpappfray: :(23:27
lpappfray: you still have not bothered to read what I wrote.23:27
lpappit is only you repeating the "parser code"23:27
frayfray: so, I will not actually do that.23:27
lpappI clearly explained what I meant.23:27
fraybecause I think it makes no sense as an end user.23:27
frayyup, I read that23:27
bluelightninglpapp: you're viewing this as an application; it's not really that, it's a complex build system23:27
lpappbluelightning: it does not really matter whether it is an application or build system23:27
lpappit does not matter a bit.23:27
seebsI came in late and don't actually understand the goal. Is this just to have some kind of automatic inclusion of build settings that aren't in the build directory? If so, why?23:28
lpappone thing matters for any kind of end user: how can I use the software with the least effort possible23:28
frayprior you said you were going to add another file to the parser (at a minimum)..  the one line diff would prevent the change to the parser, and put it in the well known-global startup file for bitbake..23:28
frayseebs, he wants a global configuration file23:28
lpappseebs: read the log23:28
lpappwe will not repeat it for you.23:28
bluelightninglpapp: the least effort possible is following the quick start guide, which tells you where to put everything23:28
lpappfray: no no23:28
lpappI have not ever mentioned "at least one more file".23:29
lpappbluelightning: 1) except that I read and I had no clue23:29
seebsWell, the thing is, lpapp. There's hundreds and hundreds of lines of discussion in the log. And I haven't got the motivation to re-read all of them to follow this. Simply put, I don't want anything right now, so I have low motivation to do things like page through hundreds of lines of discussion of something in order to find out even what's being discussed.23:29
lpapp2) Obviously, making a crap workflow and then documenting it is a silly idea in general23:29
frayme summarizes..  you don't want to confgiure local.conf, since you view it as transient (intermitent in your words).. so you want a dot file in your home directory to set key things, like the process count, rm_work... stuff that won't affect the end result of the build23:30
lpappseebs: ok, fair enough, but the consequence is that you cannot follow23:30
lpappit is your decision.23:30
lpappthat is a false summarization ....23:30
* fray offered 3 solutions, you said they were too complicated..23:30
lpappI can advice you 600 solutions.23:30
* fray read you wanted to change the parser, I said there is a simpler way.. and posted a patch..23:30
bluelightninglpapp: so, effectively telling people their project is crap is probably not the best way to get help23:30
seebsWell, yeah. That was my point, I guess. Since I'm currently happy with the state of things, I'm not inclined to put effort into finding out what's going on. I am fine with "I can't follow this discussion", because nothing's ever happened to make me think I need to follow it.23:30
lpappthe point is not the quantity, but *quality*23:30
* fray avoids the intermediate discussion that went nowhere23:30
seebsWhich is indirectly intended as advice, I guess: If you want a change, you need to think about how to make other people also want this change. Otherwise, they will ignore it because they aren't interested.23:31
seebsWhen I have wanted changes to bitbake, I've usually started by trying to persuade other people that these changes would make *their* lives better.23:31
lpappseebs: you are stating the obvious.23:32
seebsThen people become interested in helping me make those changes happen, or making those changes happen without my involvement.23:32
lpappand we went through all this.23:32
lpappplease do not play the smart guy, and that everyone else is silly23:32
lpappand cannot realize the obvious.23:32
lpapponly you.23:32
seebsYou may think it's obvious, but people generally act as though they don't know it. I mean, heck. I do all the time.23:32
seebsI have to consciously stop and think about how I am presenting my requests to people in order to present them effectively, otherwise I end up with things that no one is interested in, and nothing happens.23:33
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lpappI got an agreement with at least 5-10 people before discussing it in here in the first place, and that was all mentioned.23:33
lpappyet, my feedback was called "complain", and "trolling".23:33
lpappthat frankly bugged me.23:33
lpappand demotivated me.23:33
fraythe original request was following by complaining that turned into trolling..23:33
* lpapp is stopping it right now23:33
lpappgood luck guys23:34
fraythe original request was valid and people responded with valid ways of doing what you wanted23:34
lpappI think I need to mention this to Jeff.23:35
lpapphe is responsible for community management.23:35
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lpappit is definitely not healthy to call users, and even the one putting effort into improving things "complaining" or "trolls".23:36
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myopiateHi, is there a reason why ppc e300c3 (MPC8315rdb) is tuned for soft float?23:40
* fray looks quickly..23:40
seebsI think most likely it's because you are a bad person and deserve only suffering. .. oh, wait. That's what causes pseudo failures. I think soft-float tunings are caused by the sins of your ancestors.23:41
frayor fsl's.. ;)23:41
* lpapp has just read back and no one said a thank you for the proposal regardless whether it is technically accepted or not.23:41
fraythere are difference versions of the MPC8315rdb board..23:41
* lpapp does not feel feedback welcoming here.23:42
fraymany of them were the earlier e300c2 if I remember right23:42
bluelightninglpapp: I'm sorry you feel you have had a negative experience here, but you must understand that it is how you have responded sometimes to people's advice that rubs people up the wrong way, and as human beings they respond in kind... the situation escalates and everyone ends up being frustrated23:43
seebsfray's memory matches my vague recollection, the 8315rdb was a soft-float board at least sometimes.23:43
fraymyopiate the other possibility is the e300c3 doesn't have a classic PPC floating point using but something unique..  or it could just be a bug in the tune-ppce300c3 file..23:44
seebsI think there are also some cases where a configuration is cloned from a similar-ish configuration, and no one notices that it's now set wrong.23:44
frayya, that wouldn't surprise me in this case..23:44
seebsI think e300c3 should have standard floating point. *thinks* We had a bug report or query about this back in the WRL 3.x days or so, I think?23:44
myopiateI am rebuilding with hard float, wish me luck.23:45
fraylooking at the latest oe-core, the e300c3 says it's soft-float..23:45
myopiatee300c[1,2,3] manual says it has23:45
lpappbluelightning: I am sorry for disagreeing with their workarounds.23:45
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lpappbluelightning: nothing anyone can change about technical disagreement.23:45
frayif you change the configuration to hard float.. and can verify that the floating point unit is used and it's not trapping.. it should get fixed..23:45
fraymyopiate the e300c2 definitely does NOT have hardware floating point.. the c1 might have23:45
lpappbluelightning: but note how I did not call anyone with any bad name because I thought they technically do not make any sense to me.23:45
fraythe e300mc also has floating point23:46
fraypage 1-3 says e300c2 is soft-float, while page 1-4 says the e300c3 is hard-float23:46
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lpappbluelightning: I do not even understand how pointing out an issue, and proposing something better can be "complaining"23:46
lpappbluelightning: regardless whether it is the approved or declined way.23:46
lpappbluelightning: I just simply do not understand how such a scenario can be evaluated as "complaining".23:47
lpappbluelightning: not to even speak about calling this "trolling".23:47
seebs"2) Obviously, making a crap workflow and then documenting it is a silly idea in general" <-- calling something "crap" is usually regarded as complaining, outside some specialized fields.23:47
bluelightninglpapp: it's a little more nuanced than that... when you tell someone their design decisions are wrong (or even "crap") when they have spent considerable time working on them and proving them in the field, that is going to generate consternation23:47
myopiatefray, that manual says e300c3 does. (it also says c2 does not).23:48
myopiatefray, yes, recompiling things now.23:48
frayya.. it's likely a bug then...23:48
myopiateI'll report my results.23:48
lpappbluelightning: what should I say for things I think wrong... good, should I be a liar?23:48
lpappbluelightning: or should I remain honest I was with my technical thoughts?23:48
frayif you can check the kernel though, make sure hte floating point emulation/trapping is disabled... if everything works (s[ecifically floating point).. then it was a bug in the current implementation23:48
seebslpapp: I can't tell whether that is a rhetorical question or an actual request for information.23:48
lpappbluelightning: in any case, how is a technical disagreement "complaining"?23:48
lpappbluelightning: especially when even a proposal was done?23:49
fraywhen you call something 'crap', it's no longer technical23:49
lpappbluelightning: note, how I did not get any thank you.23:49
frayyou have no gone into an emotional argument23:49
lpappbluelightning: only "complaining" and "trolling".23:49
seebsI don't really expect people to thank me, in general, unless I am doing them a personal favor.23:49
fraywhen you won't listen to proposed solutions (workaround, etc).. that borders on complaining..23:49
bluelightninglpapp: feel free to suggest changes, but when we explain why things are the way they are, you might care to put more stock in the explanations than you have been doing rather than ignoring them23:50
lpappbluelightning: there was no any ignoring23:50
* lpapp is sad to see people here with bad faith23:50
lpappit is probably Jeff's responsibility to fix it23:50
lpappI will need to pass this role on to him.23:50
* fray doesn't work for Jeff23:50
lpappit is a Yocto channel.23:51
fray(in fact I don't think any of the people here work for Jeff)23:51
seebsSo, again, was the "what should I say" thing a request for information, or a rhetorical device?23:51
lpappif Jeff decides this channel does not represent the project mercifully, you can hardly say anything.23:51
ant_homelpapp, I used 'trolling' and no doubt I was right23:51
frayif Jeff decides that anyone is not wanted in this channel, he is free to do as he needs for the sake of the project..23:51
ant_homeit wasn't an offense, re-read all pls23:52
fraybut of course Jeff answers to the Yocto Project community and board..23:52
seebslpapp, am I right to guess that English is not your first language? It occurs to me some of the communications problems here have to do with connotations of words, which are often hard for people to pick up.23:52
lpappbluelightning: honestly, I have not had such hard times like here within this short while in any other irc channels lately in this amount.23:54
lpappand not just me, I did not see feedback handled the way it was here today.23:54
lpappbluelightning: and honestly, my reading about "feedback is welcome" in the documentation, and what I see here, is ... contradictory.23:55
lpappbut again, it is Jeff's responsibility to take up with this, and come up with proposals for solving this community issue.23:55
bluelightningit's not the feedback you provided, but the manner in which you provided it23:56
lpapp21:26 < lpapp> I wonder why there is no ~/.yoctorc or concept.23:56
lpapp21:26 < lpapp> the current establishment seems 1) Weird with linux culture 2) Not intuitive at first glance.23:57
lpapp21:29 < lpapp> those are not exclusive ....23:57
lpapp21:30 < lpapp> I spent 30-60 minutes with it23:57
lpapp21:30 < lpapp> and I still have not got the faintest idea about where to put and what to avoid the GB hell.23:57
lpapp21:36 < lpapp> can someone please give me a file path where I can put an "rm work" config that will be valid for any kinda build?23:57
bluelightningand walters responded to that23:57
lpapp21:37 < lpapp> IMO, this should be one of the very first FAQ questions.23:57
seebsI don't know what "the GB hell" is.23:57
lpappI honestly do not see any problem with "the manner in which you provided it"23:57
lpappcould you please point me that out?23:58
seebslpapp, I think the issue showed up more in the pages of conversation since then, where you said a lot of things that, at least to most people I know, would come across as hostile or confrontational.23:58
lpappbluelightning: ^23:58
lpappseebs: sorry, I will ignore you now23:58
seebsI noticed.23:58
seebsSince I asked two or three times for answers to questions which would have allowed me to answer your questions.23:59
lpappyou were not here when we discussed it, yet you are trying to chim in about something you do not know.23:59
lpappit is now not productive, sorry.23:59
bluelightninglpapp: kergoth tried to tell you how he approached the same issue, you responded in all caps telling him you didn't want something he wasn't telling you to do23:59
seebsUh. Remember what you said about logs?23:59
seebsI actually have all the logs.23:59
seebsI have the entire history of the channel, and I've watched this conversation, and I've seen you ask questions about how what you said might be interpreted or why people would be offended.23:59
c00kiemon5terI also have the logs.. will they keep filling with this ?23:59

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