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| Circuitsoft | Is there a proper place to add files to /etc/profile.d/ | 01:10 |
|---|---|---|
| Circuitsoft | ? | 01:10 |
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| nerdboy | Circuitsoft: i see a few things in meta/ that install a file there | 02:11 |
| nerdboy | that's pretty much it... | 02:12 |
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| sgw_ | Circuitsoft: new files for a recipe you are writing or in general? You can use a .bbappend file for base-files or create your own recipe that will install the ${sysconfdir}/profile.d and then install your file or files to that dir. Then in your image install that recipe. | 02:21 |
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| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #232 of nightly-non-gpl3 is complete: Failure [failed Building Images] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly-non-gpl3/builds/232 | 03:58 | |
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| nerdboy | sgw_: i was thinking base-files, but it doesn't seem to create it on its own | 04:52 |
| nerdboy | so would recipe be preferred over base-files.bbappend? | 04:53 |
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| AlexG | morning | 06:53 |
| AlexG | is Beth around? | 06:53 |
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| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #234 of build-appliance is complete: Failure [failed Building Images_1 Publishing Artifacts] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/build-appliance/builds/234 | 07:28 | |
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| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #203 of nightly-fsl-arm-lsb is complete: Failure [failed Building Images Building Images_1 Building Images_2 Publishing Artifacts] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly-fsl-arm-lsb/builds/203 | 07:55 | |
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| bluelightning | morning all | 08:02 |
| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #204 of nightly-fsl-arm is complete: Failure [failed Building Images Building Toolchain Images Building Toolchain Images_1 Building Images_1 Building Images_2 Publishing Artifacts] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly-fsl-arm/builds/204 | 08:09 | |
| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #245 of nightly-intel-gpl is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly-intel-gpl/builds/245 | 08:19 | |
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| rburton | abelloni: about network config for sato, you should have a network icon at the top that will configure basic stuff (its a UI to connman) | 08:34 |
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| abelloni | rburton: I didn't see anything | 08:59 |
| abelloni | is connman part of core-image-sato ? | 08:59 |
| rburton | yes | 09:00 |
| rburton | there's a network icon in the titlebar thingy | 09:00 |
| rburton | well, should be! | 09:00 |
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| ant_work | rburton: you once said sato could maybe fit on qvga screens with a bit of work? | 09:03 |
| rburton | ant_work: depends how much you want to use | 09:05 |
| rburton | ant_work: the desktop and panel should scale fine | 09:05 |
| rburton | just don't expect other gtk+ widgets to work on qvga | 09:05 |
| rburton | there's an ancient patch against gtk2 to make a qvga-friendly file selector | 09:06 |
| rburton | incredibly bitrotted though | 09:06 |
| rburton | but if you just want to use the panel or desktop, changing the font and icon size should do enough | 09:06 |
| ant_work | tbh my last try was done long ago...back then the desktop did not fit on 320 | 09:08 |
| ant_work | well, exactly I've rotated qvga so th etopbar is rendered in 240pix | 09:08 |
| rburton | ant_work: fwiw, i'm porting the desktop and panel to gtk3 right now | 09:09 |
| rburton | ant_work: so if you have any feature requests tell me now while the code is still changing :) | 09:09 |
| rburton | (the panel's positioning code was just simplified massively) | 09:09 |
| ant_work | I'll send you couple of screenshots | 09:17 |
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| vicky | hi yocto. How to clean all packages compiled even downloads and start a fresh build? | 09:25 |
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| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #2 of eclipse-plugin-juno is complete: Failure [failed Building Eclipse Plugin Publishing Artifacts] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/eclipse-plugin-juno/builds/2 | 09:30 | |
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| Noor | hello guys | 09:35 |
| Noor | is there any plan to replace qt4 with qt5 in yocto layer for 1.5 release | 09:35 |
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| rburton | Noor: not for 1.5, no | 09:46 |
| Noor | rburton: thanks | 09:46 |
| rburton | Noor: feel free to start that debate when 1.5 freeze for 1.6 though :) | 09:46 |
| Noor | so we have to use meta-qt5 layer then | 09:46 |
| rburton | yes | 09:46 |
| rburton | that's what we'd be pulling directly in anyway | 09:47 |
| rburton | hooray layer model :) | 09:47 |
| Noor | rburton: is there any link which describe what is planned for the release | 09:47 |
| rburton | https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Yocto_1.5_Schedule | 09:48 |
| rburton | target features are all in bugzilla | 09:48 |
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| Noor | rburton: thanks it helps | 09:50 |
| dRp3pP3r | hello everybody. i got a little problem with gnutls and libtasn on branch master... | 09:50 |
| dRp3pP3r | gnutls provides libgnutls1.so.6 but libtasn needs libgnutls1.so.3 | 09:51 |
| dRp3pP3r | creating a softlinks lets it compile, but the build fails at do_rootfs() because bitbake realises no one provides libgnutls1.so.3 | 09:52 |
| rburton | dRp3pP3r: just rebuilding tasn should solve that | 09:52 |
| rburton | the question is why didn't it rebuild itself :( | 09:52 |
| rburton | dRp3pP3r: so try cleaning and rebuilding tasn | 09:53 |
| dRp3pP3r | on it. thanks in advance. :) | 09:53 |
| dRp3pP3r | ok, how exactly do i do that? (whats the name of the package?) refetching and compiling gnutls didn't work, even though the recipes are in the same directory... | 09:58 |
| dRp3pP3r | got it, libtasn1, not libtasn | 09:59 |
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| dRp3pP3r | well, didn't work. gnutls compiles, as always, but compiling wpa_supplicant fails due to missing dependencies of libgnutls (libtasn1.s0.3) | 10:05 |
| dRp3pP3r | the exact error is: .../ld: warning: libtasn1.so.3, nedded by ..../yocto/build/tmp/sysroots/imx6qsabrelite/usr/lib/libgnutls.so, not found | 10:10 |
| rburton | ah the dep was the wrong way around | 10:11 |
| rburton | rebuild gnutls | 10:11 |
| rburton | have you been switching versions up and down? | 10:11 |
| rburton | that can cause issues like this if you're not careful | 10:11 |
| dRp3pP3r | not up and down, only up :) | 10:12 |
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| dRp3pP3r | gnutls rebuilded when i refetched and builded libtasn | 10:12 |
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| dRp3pP3r_ | seems to have worked when i cleand gnutls, libtasn and wpa-supplicant and rebuilt. thanks. :) | 10:20 |
| rburton | dRp3pP3r_: hopefully it doesn't happen again. linkage gets noticed and will cause re-builds, so something *odd* happened | 10:27 |
| dRp3pP3r_ | hm. can't really explain that one to me, because the package that was updated was wpa-supplicant. the linkage between gnutls and libtasn1 should not have been touched... | 10:28 |
| rburton | lets just pretend nothing happened ;) | 10:29 |
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| dRp3pP3r_ | happened? did i miss sonething? ;) btw: got the next one with tslib (no one provides libts >= 1.0+gitr0+<git-hash>) and cleaning won't work. can one compare version numbers including a git-hash using relative operators? | 10:31 |
| rburton | yes | 10:31 |
| rburton | the gitr0 will be gitr1 on the next build | 10:32 |
| rburton | though, what platform are you using that is using tslib? there was discussion here yesterday about what is remaining that still uses it. | 10:32 |
| dRp3pP3r_ | ah. than that's odd. tslib-calibrate wants libts, which is provided by libts. both in the same version. | 10:32 |
| dRp3pP3r_ | my platform is a Freescale i.Mx6Quad on a BoundaryDevices Sabrelite Eva-Board | 10:33 |
| rburton | its at times like this that i blow away my deploy directory and relevant stamps | 10:33 |
| rburton | qt on framebuffer? | 10:33 |
| rburton | or what ui stuff | 10:33 |
| dRp3pP3r_ | qt 4.8.x on a framebuffer, yes. matchbox-desktop on X-Server... | 10:34 |
| dRp3pP3r_ | doesn't matter, kicked the touchscreen out of the image, don't have one here right now. problem for future-dRp3pP3r :) | 10:37 |
| rburton | ha | 10:38 |
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| dRp3pP3r_ | rvurton: correction. shows up again. | 11:34 |
| dRp3pP3r_ | im meant rburton | 11:34 |
| dRp3pP3r_ | -.- | 11:34 |
| dRp3pP3r_ | i mean libtasn | 11:35 |
| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #235 of nightly-x86 is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly-x86/builds/235 | 11:37 | |
| dRp3pP3r_ | i'll fix it and come back with the solution, but for now, i need to change the line... | 11:41 |
| ant_work | zombie in your kitchen? | 11:41 |
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| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #194 of nightly is complete: Failure [failed Building Images Building Images_10] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly/builds/194 | 12:55 | |
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| ErkiS | is there a convenient way of installing RPMs on my target device? I'm trying to get build-essentials installed (on Gumstix Overo), but chasing down each needed RPM with all its dependencies is hopeless | 14:31 |
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| bluelightning | ErkiS: packagegroup-core-buildessential should contain what you want | 14:36 |
| bluelightning | well, s/contain/pull in/ | 14:36 |
| ErkiS | bluelightning, I should bitbake packagegroup-core-buildessential? | 14:38 |
| ErkiS | getting "ERROR: Nothing PROVIDES 'packagegroup-core-buildessential' " | 14:38 |
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| bluelightning | ErkiS: you can, or you can just add it to IMAGE_INSTALL if you want it in the image by default | 14:39 |
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| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #3 of eclipse-plugin-juno is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/eclipse-plugin-juno/builds/3 | 18:25 | |
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| * kergoth mutters | 18:55 | |
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| mr_science | i pretty much do that every day... | 19:11 |
| mr_science | if you get close enough to hear, i kinda sound like popeye... | 19:12 |
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| kergoth | hehe | 19:15 |
| kergoth | one of those frustrating days.. | 19:16 |
| seebs | Oh, kergoth. I may be about to send a flurry of suggested patches to meta-sourcery. Where "about-to" means a month from now I'll be saying "haha no I haven't got that working yet". :) | 19:20 |
| kergoth | heh :) | 19:21 |
| kergoth | what will they do? | 19:22 |
| seebs | Well, long story there! We're now getting CS toolchains which also have a layer that provides bbappends to build "normally" (for Yocto) using the CS patches. | 19:22 |
| seebs | Our plan is to drop all the local stuff we had for supporting partial rebuilds, and messing around with binutils on targets, and just use that layer for all those things. | 19:22 |
| seebs | But, there is a cleanup pass I'd done to external-csl-toolchain once, which I'd like to recreate, which did a better job of separating out "copy the multilib files we care about somewhere useful" from "install these files and package them". | 19:23 |
| seebs | Which the leads to support for an alternative distribution model, where instead of a completely unpacked libc directory, we have a selection of cpio.gz archives which correspond to multilibs. | 19:24 |
| seebs | For MIPS, the libc directory for our unweildy selection of multilibs is about 1.8GB as-shipped, and bloats to over 5GB if it goes through a git server (breaking all the hard links). | 19:24 |
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| seebs | In our distribution, we're distributing about 750MB of compressed archives, with the useful trait that any *given* install only has to decompress about 100MB of that, and it ends up being faster in total than unpacking the original archive would have been. | 19:25 |
| seebs | So basically, it checks for actual unpacked files, and does the same thing external-csl-toolchain did (roughly) if it finds those, but also supports a faster/smaller unpacking mechanism when appropriate. | 19:26 |
| seebs | … unwieldy. I can spell, really. | 19:27 |
| seebs | I also had stuff to make the toolchain wrappers (which exist separately) become enabled mostly-automatically with binary toolchains, which simplifies life for packages which end up failing to specify the right CCARGS, although I think all the known cases got fixed, so I might just drop that. | 19:28 |
| * mr_science adds USE="aspell" to seebs irc client | 19:30 | |
| seebs | I can't use spell checkers, they drive me batty. | 19:30 |
| seebs | Their failure rate is usually higher than mine, at least for what I write. | 19:31 |
| mr_science | i wasn't suggesting anything like M$ autocorrect | 19:31 |
| mr_science | just some red squiggly highlights... | 19:32 |
| fray | ha | 19:32 |
| sgw_ | oh, is that whta those are for ;-) | 19:33 |
| sgw_ | s/whta/what/ | 19:33 |
| seebs | I hate the red squiggles. They're … not very reliable. Also, I occasionally do real proofreading, and apparently most proofreaders find that if you get in the habit of having those on, you stop being able to proofread as reliably. | 19:34 |
| seebs | I will occasionally run a spell checker over a document, but I don't like having it always-on, because they really aren't very good at it. | 19:35 |
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| mr_science | only as good as their dictionaries... | 19:37 |
| mr_science | also kinda humorous how firefox defaults to crazy language that's completely unrelated to my locale settings | 19:38 |
| mr_science | *some | 19:38 |
| mr_science | currently cuban spanish... | 19:39 |
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| kergoth | huh, kind of surprised 'tac' isn't posix/sus | 19:53 |
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| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #3 of eclipse-plugin-kepler is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/eclipse-plugin-kepler/builds/3 | 19:55 | |
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| seebs | I think it may be because tac is obviously not possible to generically implement for stdin. | 20:06 |
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| kergoth | true, can't treat everything as a file if that's the operation you want to do | 20:13 |
| kergoth | good point | 20:13 |
| kergoth | still, quite handy :) | 20:13 |
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| seebs | I wrote an unsort(1) utility. | 20:16 |
| seebs | I have, on my very low priority list of things to do: making it correctly parse, and warn about errors in the specification of, all the sorting options available to the POSIX sort(1). | 20:17 |
| mr_science | seebs: stop, you're making me all goose-pimply... | 20:18 |
| seebs | Obviously, implementing the functionality would be much, much, easier than parsing the options. | 20:18 |
| seebs | Option parsing is one of those problems which sounds REALLY easy until you do it. | 20:19 |
| seebs | … argh | 20:19 |
| seebs | I was thinking about that, and now I've realized that there is an obvious way in which I could make my option parser more useful in an interesting way. | 20:20 |
| seebs | It supports getopt-like strings, with the extension that, just as "f:" means "option f takes an argument", "f#" means "option f takes a numeric argument". Good so far. | 20:20 |
| mr_science | if it's anything above "trivial" i tend to use getopts | 20:21 |
| seebs | I have now realized that I might find life easier if it also supported "f::" meaning "option f takes exactly two arguments". | 20:21 |
| seebs | In sh, I use getopts. Or, in some cases, a very clever portable near-reimplementation of it in sh I got from Gary Vaughan during the work on the shell book. | 20:21 |
| mr_science | but i'll admit to writing a lot of shell script with custom check_input functions and no getopts... | 20:22 |
| seebs | But being a sort of compulsive programmer, and playing a game that has a Lua-based addon development environment, I also maintain a getopts-alike for parsing commands in that. | 20:22 |
| * mr_science should take his own advice more often | 20:22 | |
| seebs | And there I feel some freedom to experiment. | 20:22 |
| seebs | I actually maintain an options library in C, although most of its features turned out to be ill-considered. But it was an interesting idea. | 20:23 |
| mr_science | but i'll bet you learned something from your "ill-considered" implementation... | 20:23 |
| seebs | In particular, it has the fancy feature of letting you save options to a .foorc file, or load them from such a file, so you can trivially set default options. This seemed like SUCH a good idea at the time. I think I've used it twice. | 20:23 |
| seebs | Oh, heck yeah. This is why I am always happy to make an excuse to go write something. I know people who write prose, and they insist that no words you write are a waste. I have found this to be true of code, also. | 20:24 |
| mr_science | the main difference being the concept of throwing out implementation #1 | 20:25 |
| mr_science | since *not* throwing out rough drafts of prose is much less likely to bite you in the ass later | 20:25 |
| seebs | Someone, and I forget who, but… Might have been Joel Spolsky? Argued recently, and moderately persuasively, that sometimes refactoring may be better than throwing away the first implementation. | 20:27 |
| seebs | Because some significant amount of the "cruft" is actually handling real problems. | 20:27 |
| seebs | http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html <-- yup | 20:27 |
| mr_science | i wouldn't disagree with that | 20:27 |
| mr_science | much... | 20:27 |
| mr_science | probably depends a lot on the individual person/code | 20:28 |
| seebs | It does. Also on scale, timing, scheduling, and how far off the original requirements were. | 20:29 |
| mr_science | many variables... | 20:29 |
| seebs | In general, my experience has been that all the clear rules as to what to do are wrong, and you are better off having multiple factors and weighing them. | 20:29 |
| seebs | This is a good strategy especially because it is easy to explain how to do it so novices can start using it right away. *nods wisely* | 20:30 |
| kergoth | seebs: its a good article, he makes a good point about the implicit knowledge carried in the code. i know i've attempted rewrites on things before and ended up re-rolling the workarounds for the ocrner cases again which i didn't pull over at first thinking they weren't necessary | 20:34 |
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| seebs | This is highly relevant to the task I've just started on of trying to figure out whether to (1) uprev my wr-toolchain layer, or (2) try to get the fixes in it that I actually still need into meta-sourcery. | 20:37 |
| seebs | I think I am going with #2. | 20:37 |
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| mr_science | that's one of the points i've tried to explain repeatedly over the years... | 20:44 |
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| mr_science | usually not very successfully for one reason or another | 20:45 |
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| levi | Regarding the Joel on Software article, there are also industry examples of market-leading companies having their lunch handed to them because they *didn't* rewrite their software. | 20:46 |
| mr_science | it just seems harder than it should be to get some people to understand that | 20:46 |
| mr_science | ie, that writing code is fundamentally a knowledge-capturing activity | 20:47 |
| mr_science | maybe i just need a bigger clue stick | 20:47 |
| levi | mr_science: I worked for a while with a jr. engineer who seemed really weak at figuring out how to do things. After talking with him for a while, it became apparent to me that his main problem was that he went out of his way to avoid *reading* code. | 20:49 |
| levi | How people expect to *write* coherent things in a language they're not adept at *reading* first is beyond me. | 20:50 |
| kergoth | yikes | 20:50 |
| mr_science | but yeah, Joel's mom didn't raise no dummies | 20:51 |
| mr_science | not that i couldn't argue with over some things... | 20:51 |
| mr_science | *him even | 20:51 |
| levi | I guess it doesn't help much that low-level languages like C make it very easy to write highly imperative code, in which the actual code provides a lot of tiny explicit details without ever making clear *why* those operations are being ordered. | 20:52 |
| mr_science | yeah, some tools (like that example) require extra thought/work/effort to mitigate those kinds of things | 20:53 |
| mr_science | which is why i like helpful languages like Ada... | 20:53 |
| * mr_science waits for the groans and jaw-popping | 20:54 | |
| * kergoth chuckles | 20:54 | |
| levi | mr_science: I really need to learn Ada. I mostly enjoy statically-typed functional languages (Haskell, OCaml) for exploratory/modeling programming, because it helps you get the design hashed out and coherent before you get around the the implementation details. | 20:57 |
| levi | From what I've seen of Ada, it's highly verbose but does provide a flexible set of tools for describing the way you expect things to work and having the compiler verify that you're operating within those constraints. | 20:58 |
| mr_science | Ada has some lovely features that are still missing from most other languages | 20:59 |
| mr_science | since Ada 83 even | 20:59 |
| mr_science | why they're still missing is very good question | 20:59 |
| * fray suspects because of the reputation of Ada | 21:00 | |
| mr_science | probably goes along with the whole "software engineering do as we say not as we do" thing | 21:00 |
| fray | and specifically the reams of documentation when Ada is used in gov't contracted software | 21:00 |
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| mr_science | reams of govt documentation software docs are pretty much independent of the implementation language... | 21:01 |
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| mr_science | er, "software documentation" | 21:01 |
| fray | ya.. but Ada was designed around that | 21:01 |
| mr_science | not really | 21:01 |
| levi | I think they're primarily missing because no one has done any R&D at the level of C/Ada languages in a long time. You just use C or C++ and deal with it, and those can't change much due to massive amounts of code and trained programmers that can't be obsoleted. | 21:02 |
| mr_science | the "myths" of Ada revealed... | 21:02 |
| fray | from what I saw it was.. (I saw it from a Honeywell perspective in the late 1980s) | 21:02 |
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| fray | the wall of Ada manuals was insane.. the reams of "you must do it this way" docuemnts from the gov't were insane.. | 21:03 |
| * mr_science spent 20+ years doing IV&V on DoD launch range systems | 21:03 | |
| levi | Ada was designed around the idea of reliable, deterministic systems. | 21:03 |
| fray | it led to a bad taste in new programers, who said I won't work on system slike that | 21:03 |
| fray | levi, absolutely.. and I think it had it's place | 21:03 |
| mr_science | Ada was designed to handle several different problem domains, but mostly the design is meant to iprove software quality | 21:04 |
| levi | The current 'state of the art' way to do that is apparently gigantic software systems like UML modeling and code extraction tools. | 21:04 |
| mr_science | nothing specific to DoD about that | 21:04 |
| fray | ya, I'm not saying what we have today is any better frankly.. | 21:04 |
| mr_science | if there's one thing i've seen over those 20+ years, it's that almost nobody knows the Ada standards or design criteria | 21:05 |
| mr_science | but they all likt to talk about it... | 21:05 |
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| mr_science | i also get that some people just don't like things like range variables that won't allow out-of-bounds indeces and things like that | 21:07 |
| mr_science | personally, i need all the help i can get to eliminate bugs | 21:07 |
| fray | heh, from my experience language usage is very cyclical.. | 21:07 |
| levi | Amen to that. | 21:07 |
| fray | there seems to always be the language of the month behavior.. and then longer term languages.. | 21:08 |
| fray | (C, Ada, Fortran, Cobol...) | 21:08 |
| ant_home | let's port INTERCAL | 21:08 |
| levi | As Alan Kay observed, we have a programming 'pop culture'. | 21:08 |
| ant_home | cross-intercal... | 21:08 |
| mr_science | i think Fortran wins the geriatric language prize | 21:08 |
| fray | but wow, it's still being used for new development.. :/ | 21:09 |
| fray | (I'd rather program Fortran then cobol though) | 21:09 |
| mr_science | very useful for certain things, yet still a 50's language... | 21:09 |
| levi | It's easier to write high-performance numeric code in Fortran than C, though. | 21:09 |
| mr_science | yup | 21:09 |
| levi | You don't have to write a bunch of aliasing annotations all over the place. | 21:10 |
| levi | I was in the supercomputing industry for a few years, and Fortran is very much alive and well there. | 21:10 |
| fray | I have a hated for AS/400 & Cobol due to a course I took at my university.. | 21:10 |
| mr_science | the only real knock on Ada i can think of is that they just did a crappy job selling it | 21:11 |
| levi | Cobol was just kind of a bad idea that gets re-discovered every so often. | 21:11 |
| fray | HAHA | 21:11 |
| mr_science | given the prevalence of myths still floating around... | 21:11 |
| levi | "Let's write a programming language that untrained managers can understand!" | 21:11 |
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| mr_science | s/programming language/magazine ad/ | 21:12 |
| fray | levi (and in my university case) be sure to tell all of the "programmers in the room" that you are going to show them the 'right way to program'.. | 21:12 |
| * fray is still annoyed (or worse) at that professor... and that was about 18 years ago | 21:12 | |
| levi | mr_science: Well, compared to other languages of its vintage, it was a relatively large and complex language. Also, from my understanding there was a long period where there were no free compilers available for it. | 21:13 |
| mr_science | levi: the latter period was mostly while the original 83 standard was still under development | 21:13 |
| fray | heh CDC's uTutor was better then Cobol IMHO | 21:13 |
| levi | I don't think it's possible to understate the importance of the open, freely-sharable nature of Unix and C to their current ubiquity. | 21:14 |
| mr_science | it's probably still the only language with a compiler validation test suite *or* a standard before compiler implementation | 21:14 |
| fray | absolutely | 21:14 |
| mr_science | both of which are Good Things | 21:15 |
| levi | They are not ubiquitious because they're the *best*, but because they're relatively small, simple, portable, and freely available. | 21:15 |
| mr_science | yeah, but have you tried any of the "free" non-GNU C compilers? | 21:16 |
| mr_science | pretty easy to find compiler bugs in them | 21:16 |
| mr_science | at least it used to be... | 21:16 |
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| levi | If you haven't read the UNIX-HATERS Handbook, it's entertaining reading even if you like Unix. | 21:16 |
| lpapp_ | levi: why | 21:17 |
| mr_science | i pretty sure i read that stuff a loooong time ago, along with the original BOFH stories... | 21:17 |
| mr_science | *i'm | 21:17 |
| levi | mr_science: On the other hand, it's also not uncommon to find bugs in obscure parts of gcc. I ran into one or two many years ago while doing work on a NIOS2-based system. | 21:18 |
| mr_science | maybe it's time to skim it again in the cold light of ... something... | 21:18 |
| mr_science | levi: didn't say gnu code was bug-free | 21:19 |
| levi | lpapp_: It's filled with humorous rants, many of which come from users of other contemporary systems that were more advanced in a lot of ways. | 21:19 |
| mr_science | just orders of magnitude cleaner usually... | 21:19 |
| levi | My initial experience with C code bases was actually from reading the code for MUD-style games. | 21:20 |
| mr_science | okay, i think i finished this bash script about 25 minutes ago... | 21:20 |
| levi | Specifically the Tiny- variety. | 21:20 |
| mr_science | oops, forgot my die() function | 21:21 |
| seebs | I mostly learned C from roguelikes. | 21:21 |
| levi | It was very enlightening to see how a couple of programs that appeared very similar to users could be implemented so differently, and how much clearer one was than the other. | 21:21 |
| levi | Oddly enough, the clearer one tended to crash a lot less... | 21:21 |
| mr_science | funny how that works... | 21:22 |
| mr_science | can you say "obfuscated C contest"? | 21:22 |
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| mr_science | just the fact that you can actually do some of that stuff with C is pretty scary | 21:26 |
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| mr_science | when i weigh making a .emacs (again) against paying $79 for sublime | 21:32 |
| mr_science | i'm thinking the $79 is a good investment... | 21:32 |
| mr_science | since i haven't made a custom .emacs in years | 21:33 |
| kergoth | i picked it up, but i do too much remotely over ssh to make much use of it :( | 21:34 |
| mr_science | works okay over ssh -Y | 21:35 |
| mr_science | damn, it's like those guys read my mind... | 21:35 |
| * mr_science gets out his foil hat again | 21:36 | |
| mr_science | just in case... | 21:36 |
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| levi | I like sublime. The editor GUI is very slick/optimized, and it's extensible. | 21:51 |
| levi | On the other hand, emacs is very familiar, so I mostly just use emacs. | 21:51 |
| levi | There are a couple of pre-made .emacs directories that are nice. | 21:51 |
| levi | Like the Emacs Starter Kit | 21:52 |
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| mr_science | yeah, i specific things in mine so i had to make my own | 22:04 |
| mr_science | *wanted even | 22:04 |
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| mr_science | sublime seems to have almost exactly what i need working out-of-the-box | 22:05 |
| mr_science | plus other stuff i haven't even played with yet | 22:05 |
| levi | For me, it's not the nice features but the muscle memory for standard emacs bindings that's got me stuck with emacs. :) | 22:06 |
| mr_science | yup | 22:06 |
| levi | Although I sometimes make extensive use of org-mode | 22:06 |
| mr_science | like kergoth, i ended up doing so much work over shell connections i got used to simple | 22:07 |
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| mr_science | i need to break out of that mold... | 22:08 |
| seebs | Okay, before I spend a huge amount of time tracking this down… Had a build fail because <rpc/rpc.h> was absent. Using binary toolchain which may well not have it. Just wondering whether that's "report to vendor", or "don't be silly, turn on rpc in DISTRO_FEATURES", or what... | 22:10 |
| mr_science | heh, my sdk build failed last night with a missing /bin/sed in the native sysroot | 22:11 |
| mr_science | i filed a bug, but it sort-of felt wrong... | 22:11 |
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| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #4 of eclipse-plugin-juno is complete: Failure [failed Building Eclipse Plugin Publishing Artifacts] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/eclipse-plugin-juno/builds/4 | 23:10 | |
| mr_science | so now that i look again, sublime does fall short of vi in several areas | 23:11 |
| seebs | I seem to recall having tried sublime some, and not been especially happy, but… It is hard for me to learn editors. | 23:15 |
| mr_science | it looks pretty nice at first, and i do like the fact that certain things Just Work without any fiddling | 23:16 |
| mr_science | but... | 23:16 |
| mr_science | when you look a little closer, it's short on language sensitivity and a few other things | 23:17 |
| seebs | I mostly don't use language-sensitive features in editors, and actually go around turning them off. I never got used to things like syntax highlighting, and tend to find them distracting. | 23:18 |
| levi | mr_science: If you do much C programming, there's an interesting integration of clang with sublime to catch errors on the fly. | 23:28 |
| mr_science | depends on the color scheme, but i *do* find syntax highlighting helpful | 23:28 |
| mr_science | levi: now yer talkin' | 23:29 |
| mr_science | more analysis tools should be "built-ins" | 23:29 |
| mr_science | of course, with Ada the compiler pretty much does that | 23:30 |
| mr_science | personally, i would much rather fix compile errors than chase runtime bugs... | 23:31 |
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| khem | rburton: I am running into an issue which boils down to this fix https://bugzilla.yoctoproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2597 | 23:52 |
| yocti | Bug 2597: normal, Medium+, 1.3 M5, constantinx.musca, VERIFIED FIXED, intltool is missing intltool.m4 | 23:52 |
| khem | rburton: why is RDEP on a -dev package added ? | 23:52 |
| khem | IMO needed files should have been moved into gettext main package | 23:52 |
| khem | and dependency on gettext be created | 23:52 |
| khem | the description in bug its not clear what it fixed and what was broken | 23:53 |
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