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| lpapp | what language is webhob written in? | 07:27 |
|---|---|---|
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| rburton | lpapp: python/django iirc | 07:55 |
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| lpapp | but is it actually handy that end users will need to run a local webserver? | 07:57 |
| RP | lpapp: that is easy enough to do from python | 07:58 |
| lpapp | well, I have spent 3 full working days to do. | 08:01 |
| lpapp | it would be a pity if end users had to go through the same trouble... | 08:02 |
| lpapp | this brings me to the idea of a Qt frontend, really. | 08:02 |
| lpapp | which you just run and it works. | 08:02 |
| *** JaMa|Off is now known as JaMa | 08:03 | |
| JaMa | my buildservers don't have any Qt or x11 installed, local webserver sounds like less bloat to me | 08:05 |
| lpapp | what does it mean meta-oe layer? | 08:05 |
| lpapp | except that many people do not use buildservers. | 08:05 |
| RP | lpapp: and many people do | 08:05 |
| lpapp | well, the most people do not use to be fair. | 08:05 |
| RP | lpapp: how many users have you talked to? | 08:06 |
| * JaMa is using minimalistic chroot even on his desktop machine | 08:06 | |
| lpapp | actually, they could already use ssh. | 08:06 |
| lpapp | since server guys are used to it, anyway. | 08:06 |
| lpapp | a frontend is a means for end users on local PC in my book. | 08:07 |
| lpapp | gtk is non-crossplatform. | 08:07 |
| lpapp | webserver is a hassle for such users | 08:07 |
| JaMa | you cannot run qt frontend in GNU screen on server :) | 08:07 |
| lpapp | and for those people, I believe, qt frontend I will work on, is the best solution. | 08:07 |
| lpapp | JaMa: have you read what I wrote? | 08:07 |
| lpapp | 1) yes, you can. | 08:08 |
| lpapp | 2) I mentioned ssh. | 08:08 |
| JaMa | no intentionally I'm not reading anything you're writting | 08:08 |
| RP | lpapp: Lets just say that there has been quite a lot of work gone into figuring out what the userbase actually wants/needs through surveys, interviews and so on | 08:08 |
| lpapp | JaMa: then intentionally do not reply. :) | 08:08 |
| lpapp | RP: let us just say, many people use local PCs. | 08:08 |
| JaMa | have you seen any "lpapp:" in my messages? I'm not talking to you, I'm just supporting RP's view | 08:09 |
| RP | lpapp: Have you read what *I* wrote? ;-) | 08:09 |
| lpapp | and for those, as I already mentioned, qt seems to be the best solution. | 08:09 |
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| lpapp | RP: yes | 08:09 |
| * lpapp really fails to see why qt could not be run over screen | 08:10 | |
| lpapp | that is just technically incorrect. | 08:10 |
| RP | lpapp: for you, qt is perhaps seemingly the best solution, for the whole user base it was not found to be | 08:10 |
| lpapp | RP: err... no. | 08:10 |
| RP | lpapp: we did actual research for that and there are details in the mailing list archives | 08:10 |
| lpapp | RP: as I already said, I was primarily talking about local PC builds. | 08:10 |
| RP | lpapp: our surveys found something different? | 08:10 |
| * JaMa off | 08:11 | |
| RP | lpapp: You're suggesting I don't understand the survey results? :) | 08:11 |
| lpapp | RP: yes | 08:11 |
| lpapp | there is an article somewhere how bad surveys are. | 08:11 |
| lpapp | and why they are misleading. | 08:11 |
| lpapp | also, show me the survey, please. | 08:12 |
| lpapp | and the mailing list thread. | 08:12 |
| RP | lpapp: its all in the mailing list archives | 08:12 |
| lpapp | show or did not happen. :) | 08:12 |
| RP | lpapp: I'm not interested in being told I can't read or understand things ;-) | 08:13 |
| lpapp | RP: oh, in that case "we also made a big survey, we just cannot prove, blabla" | 08:13 |
| lpapp | it is getting unauthentic without proving when being asked for details. | 08:13 |
| RP | lpapp: I'm just not interested in taking this discussion further since I think its pointless | 08:14 |
| lpapp | right, so I just made a survey | 08:14 |
| lpapp | a few people any everyone would prefer qt. | 08:14 |
| RP | lpapp: congratulations. Survey sample of one? :) | 08:15 |
| lpapp | I am not a native speaker. | 08:15 |
| lpapp | but a few people definitely do not mean one in English. | 08:15 |
| lpapp | since you cannot back your statement, I am not in a position to conclude out of it. | 08:16 |
| RP | lpapp: https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Web_Hob_design_project_with_T%26T has details of some of the work that went into it and links to user testing and so on | 08:17 |
| lpapp | show me the end result of the survey, and the survey text itself, please. | 08:18 |
| lpapp | 1) mailing list | 08:18 |
| lpapp | 2) a doc file | 08:18 |
| Bagder | why should anyone work on showing you that? | 08:26 |
| Bagder | you'll just flame on anyway | 08:26 |
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| lpapp | Bagder: please be civil. | 08:30 |
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| rburton | lpapp: why are you so concerned that other people are writing a webhob? if you think a qt UI is best, you are free to write one. | 08:32 |
| rburton | lpapp: end of story. | 08:33 |
| lpapp | rburton: I cannot be interested in the details of a claim? | 08:33 |
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| lpapp | of course, I will write my Qt frontend, but unlike some other people I listen to others, and why they have that opinion. | 08:34 |
| lpapp | it is not like you can throw "random" worlds at the company either without backing your statement. | 08:35 |
| lpapp | it seems to be like the "overdiscussed gerrit", when I tried to look for information for quite a long while, and turned out I just wasted a lot of time since there was no such a discussion at all in public. | 08:36 |
| rburton | sigh | 08:36 |
| rburton | lpapp: if you'r really interested in teh webhob research, a minute with google should find it | 08:37 |
| rburton | now i'm off to the library with my daughter | 08:37 |
| lpapp | yes, sure, I need to back others, and not them themselves, sigh. | 08:40 |
| lpapp | not to mention this has been told for the gerrit stuff as well for which I was looking for hours (!) without any result. | 08:41 |
| rburton | ffs | 08:41 |
| rburton | https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/images/9/9d/User_Test_1_Findings-INT-002.pdf | 08:41 |
| rburton | top hit on google for "webhob user interviews" | 08:41 |
| RP | and linked from the page I mentioned | 08:42 |
| * RP shrugs | 08:42 | |
| lpapp | oh, so it is not a mailing list | 08:44 |
| lpapp | and I was looking on the mailing list. | 08:44 |
| lpapp | sigh | 08:44 |
| lpapp | so much for correct information .... | 08:44 |
| lpapp | also, it is a webhob user feedback, not generic ui preference survey! | 08:46 |
| lpapp | it is a vastly different thing. | 08:46 |
| lpapp | user interface* | 08:46 |
| lpapp | 8 interviews ... :-) That is a small number, at large. | 08:47 |
| lpapp | and the original survey is nowhere. | 08:47 |
| lpapp | so, yes, I could do a Qt user interface feedback, and would probably get positive feedback from Qt users. | 08:49 |
| lpapp | anyway, it shows the original claim incorrect to me. | 08:50 |
| lpapp | so what does it mean meta-oe layer? Wasn't the meta layer supposed to be the oe-core layer? There is a non oe-core oe layer? | 08:52 |
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| RP | lpapp: meta-oe = meta-openembedded | 09:16 |
| RP | lpapp: http://git.openembedded.org/meta-openembedded/ | 09:16 |
| lpapp | so non oe-core oe layer | 09:17 |
| lpapp | is it possible to put fltk in oe-core? | 09:18 |
| RP | lpapp: there were multiple stages and interviews in the webhob process. Those look like some of the later ones, I'm not sure offhand where the earlier ones are archives or if they're online | 09:18 |
| RP | lpapp: You haven't given me much incentive to go and find the information and I'm not sure it would make much difference to you even if I did. There was discussion at each stage on the mailing list about the process. | 09:19 |
| RP | the question would be why is fltk needed in oe-core and why is it not usable from meta-oe | 09:19 |
| * RP -> afk | 09:20 | |
| lpapp | because it is a core embedded graphics stuff? | 09:20 |
| lpapp | well, you can try to defend yourself by proving yourself would not make a difference for a technical discussion. | 09:20 |
| lpapp | it looks unreasonable to me, but it is your choice to take. | 09:20 |
| lpapp | even gnome is in oe | 09:21 |
| lpapp | and fltk is way less headless | 09:21 |
| lpapp | mailing list patch is the best way for such proposals? | 09:26 |
| lpapp | or a separate discussion thread? | 09:27 |
| lpapp | I would not like to clone yet another full layer just for one single package. | 09:27 |
| lpapp | and I think fltk is also common on embedded. | 09:27 |
| JaMa | moving gnome to separate layer was also proposed few times | 09:27 |
| lpapp | that would make sense as it is a monster | 09:28 |
| lpapp | fltk is not however. | 09:28 |
| lpapp | it is probably the most lightweight embedded opengl empowered ui toolkit out there I know. | 09:28 |
| lpapp | I would like to be able to build a simple ui for a headless board with oe-core, off-hand. | 09:29 |
| zibri | just clone another layer, is that so hard? :) | 09:29 |
| lpapp | for one package to clone 100+? | 09:30 |
| lpapp | yes, it is so hard | 09:30 |
| lpapp | and so bloated. | 09:30 |
| lpapp | and cluttered. | 09:30 |
| zibri | but if you include every recipe *you* want in oecore, that will get bloated as well | 09:30 |
| lpapp | huh? no? | 09:30 |
| zibri | it's not like you have to use every recipe in meta-oe either | 09:30 |
| lpapp | in fact, if you read what I write, I proposed to get the monster out, i.e. gnome. | 09:31 |
| lpapp | fltk *is* a core ui toolkit for very headless boards. | 09:31 |
| lpapp | so it is a natural fit for oe-core to me. | 09:31 |
| lpapp | but of course, you are free to prove me wrong anytime and give an alternative. | 09:32 |
| lpapp | what to use on a core system. | 09:32 |
| zibri | why would a headless board need a gui toolkit? | 09:32 |
| lpapp | because it has a small display? | 09:32 |
| lpapp | called "LCD". | 09:33 |
| zibri | not the ones i work with :) | 09:33 |
| lpapp | oh, so if you do not work with it, it does not exist... | 09:33 |
| JaMa | fltk is also bloated, because different recipes need different fltk versions | 09:33 |
| lpapp | huh? no? | 09:33 |
| lpapp | actually, every distribution I know is using one version, and works fine. | 09:33 |
| lpapp | even meta-oe uses one. | 09:33 |
| JaMa | see oe-classic discussions about fltk, I know it's old | 09:34 |
| lpapp | please show a valid discussion. | 09:35 |
| lpapp | which is a problem _today_. | 09:36 |
| lpapp | what is "LEAD_SONAME" ? | 09:45 |
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| lpapp | meta-openembedded patches do not go to the oe-core mailing list? | 09:57 |
| lpapp | what does '2' mean in the qmake2 class? | 10:04 |
| lpapp | is there a tutorial somewhere how to write class files? | 10:06 |
| RP | lpapp: LEAD_SONAME is used by debian.bbclass for package renaming. Its something we'll probably remove eventually | 10:07 |
| lpapp | yeah, it looks like a tremendeous hack. | 10:07 |
| RP | lpapp: meta-oe patches go to where the readme says they should go | 10:07 |
| lpapp | is there a tutorial somewhere how to write class files? | 10:09 |
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| RP | I suspect the answer to the specific question is no | 10:14 |
| lpapp | is there a way to submit a change to a mailing list without subscribing and waiting for moderation? | 10:37 |
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| RP | lpapp: if you subscribe you shouldn't hit the moderation | 10:52 |
| rburton | lpapp: you can subscribe and turn off mail delivery | 11:03 |
| lpapp | I do not wanna subscribe. | 11:25 |
| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #234 of nightly-multilib is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly-multilib/builds/234 | 11:31 | |
| lpapp | JaMa: how can I pass configure options to qt5? | 11:43 |
| lpapp | with your layer? | 11:43 |
| lpapp | to use the feature system for instance. | 11:44 |
| JaMa | PACKAGECONFIG | 11:44 |
| JaMa | in some cases it's not so simple (for options with only auto-detection) see qtmultimedia for example | 11:45 |
| lpapp | JaMa: have you seen my patch btw? | 11:46 |
| JaMa | yes, it was missing [meta-qt5] prefix in subject but otherwise looks OK | 11:47 |
| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #235 of nightly-mips is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org:8011/builders/nightly-mips/builds/235 | 11:47 | |
| lpapp | JaMa: nope, the second is fine. | 11:47 |
| lpapp | JaMa: your suggestion in the readme sends two emails | 11:47 |
| lpapp | no idea why... | 11:47 |
| lpapp | it asked me the same question twice. | 11:47 |
| JaMa | id you combine -1 and <commit-id> ? | 11:48 |
| JaMa | s/id/did/ | 11:48 |
| lpapp | JaMa: no, I passed 0001... that may have been the reason then. | 11:48 |
| JaMa | yes it's the same issue as git send-email -1 <commit-id> which sends HEAD-1 + <commit-id> patches | 11:49 |
| lpapp | rburton: have you seen my question about TOPDIR and so? | 11:51 |
| lpapp | yesterday evening. | 11:51 |
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| balister_ | tlwoerner, that was a good talk you guys gave at Linaro connect | 14:52 |
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| tlwoerner | Crofton: thanks :-) | 15:04 |
| tlwoerner | i helped more with the lab, which i don't think was recorded | 15:05 |
| tlwoerner | the lab was tough to do, despite having DVDs and USB sticks prepared with DL_DIR and sstate-cache | 15:06 |
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| Crofton|work | labs are tough | 15:19 |
| Crofton|work | you should chat with the people that help with the dev day labs | 15:20 |
| Crofton|work | figuring out how to do labs wwithout lots of infrastructure is an issue | 15:20 |
| tlwoerner | the whole presentation (which was recorded) was done by Nicolas (ndec); he did a great job! | 15:36 |
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| nerdboy | this is very nice => https://www.yoctoproject.org/docs/current/poky-ref-manual/poky-ref-manual.html#maintaining-build-output-quality | 17:51 |
| * nerdboy can't wait to try it... | 17:52 | |
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| JaMa | someone interested in evolution-data-server? | 18:10 |
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| nerdboy | i would assume gnome and/or telepathy folks would be... | 20:54 |
| lpapp | ? | 20:55 |
| nerdboy | eds is a dependency for a full/modern gnome | 20:55 |
| JaMa | nerdboy: it's broken for some time, so I'm looking for someone willing to update/fix it | 20:56 |
| JaMa | nerdboy: and it's better when that someone is actually using it too :) | 20:56 |
| nerdboy | gotcha | 20:59 |
| nerdboy | i thought that was your way of saying you just fixed/pushed it... | 20:59 |
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| JaMa | nerdboy: no it was moved from oe-core to meta-gnome in meta-oe because of lack of testability and interest | 21:06 |
| JaMa | nerdboy: now it's broken since last glib upgrade | 21:07 |
| nerdboy | happen to know which version of glib broke it? | 21:08 |
| JaMa | I can check "State of bitbake world" threads to see since when it's broken | 21:10 |
| nerdboy | got a bug number instead? | 21:10 |
| JaMa | it was broken in May already http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openembedded/58019 | 21:12 |
| nerdboy | is there a non-git version of evolution-data-server? | 21:13 |
| nerdboy | all i see is evolution-data-server_git.bb | 21:13 |
| JaMa | so probably broken since upgrade from 2.34.3 to 2.36.0 | 21:14 |
| JaMa | Date: Sun Apr 21 14:37:16 2013 -0700 | 21:14 |
| JaMa | that's why I was asking if there is someone actually using it :) | 21:15 |
| JaMa | at least cheese, contacts, dates are also unavailable since then | 21:16 |
| JaMa | nerdboy: only git recipe is there | 21:16 |
| nerdboy | eds-3.6.4 works with glib-2.36.3 | 21:16 |
| JaMa | 2.32.3 should be working with it too and is closer to what we have now | 21:17 |
| nerdboy | and on the gentoo side i only see patches for eds-2.3x | 21:17 |
| JaMa | but there is quite a few patches which will need rebase and testing in runtime | 21:17 |
| nerdboy | 2.32.3 with patches... | 21:18 |
| nerdboy | yup | 21:18 |
| JaMa | so I've started with update and then decided to leave it to someone using it and spend my time fixing other recipes instead | 21:18 |
| nerdboy | right now i'm using as little gnome as i can get away with... | 21:18 |
| nerdboy | plus i have afew requests in the queue already | 21:19 |
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| JaMa | anyone see this before? work-shared/gcc-4.8.1-r0/gcc-4.8.1/gcc/cfgloop.h:20:0: error: unterminated #ifndef | 22:45 |
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| sgw1 | JaMa: no, what target? master? | 22:55 |
| JaMa | master qemux86-64 | 22:57 |
| JaMa | started after today's oe-core upgrade | 22:57 |
| sgw1 | hmm, I am building master on the AB, but I built MUT earlier this week with that set of changes. | 22:59 |
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| JaMa | maybe it one-of-issue, will try to cleansstate after the build end | 23:00 |
| JaMa | s | 23:00 |
| nerdboy | *liberally sprinkle "s" where needed... | 23:02 |
| * nerdboy waits for the espresso | 23:06 | |
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| JaMa | sgw_: build fine after cleansstate :/ | 23:53 |
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