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| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #693 of nightly-mips is complete: Failure [failed BuildImages_1] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-mips/builds/693 | 06:58 | |
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| awaisb | zeddii: sorry for pinging you directly but I guess you are one of the maintainers for linux-yocto mailing list | 07:30 |
|---|---|---|
| awaisb | I've been trying to subscribe to the list for like one and a half week now | 07:30 |
| awaisb | i do not get any confirmation emails or anything from the list | 07:30 |
| awaisb | :( | 07:31 |
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| bluelightning | halstead: ^ | 07:33 |
| JohnLiu | Hi | 07:35 |
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| awaisb | bluelightning: thanks :) | 07:43 |
| awaisb | let's hope someone gets around to this | 07:43 |
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| RagBal | Do I need to configure busybox-syslog or does it start logging by default? I can't find any log file on my system but it's running | 08:09 |
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| Anticom | Hi all. How can i let yocto sign all my packages and also restrict my package manager to only accept packages signed by me? | 10:41 |
| Anticom | I've been searching through the entire mega-manual for 2.0 and didn't find anything interesting besiedes sign_rpm.bbclass | 10:41 |
| Anticom | Also googling arround only yielded http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.embedded.yocto.general/28097 | 10:42 |
| LetoThe2nd | make sure it just pulls from your servers? | 10:43 |
| Anticom | LetoThe2nd: doesn't prevent anyone to build and rpm that has got the appropriate toolchain and install it | 10:43 |
| Anticom | i want to prevent someone fiddling arround with our setup | 10:43 |
| LetoThe2nd | Anticom: which you are not entitled to prevent IIRC, given some legislature - let me find the link | 10:44 |
| Anticom | LetoThe2nd: Well i know that synology has their ipkg only accept their packages. Under the hood their NAS also runs linux. So is that some license thing of yocto project itself or what exactly is preventin me from doing that? | 10:45 |
| LetoThe2nd | you can raise up barriers by not offering an easy way, but IIRC you are not allowed to cryptographically restrict any updates. | 10:45 |
| Anticom | LetoThe2nd: i'm not talking about updates | 10:45 |
| Anticom | i'm talking about installing additional stuff | 10:46 |
| LetoThe2nd | Anticom: well a) is that synology didn't ask us/me, and you are wrong in terms that i can copy anything to a nas and run it. | 10:46 |
| LetoThe2nd | been there, done that. | 10:46 |
| Anticom | LetoThe2nd: but you can't install a package you've cross-compiled and packaged yourself without any modifications | 10:46 |
| LetoThe2nd | its just that they do not offer anything not signed by them through their repositories - which is what i just told you. | 10:46 |
| Anticom | there are tricks to unlock it but by default they're rejected | 10:46 |
| Anticom | Moreover i just mentioned synology because i don't think they would do anything illegal on that scale | 10:47 |
| Anticom | hm | 10:47 |
| LetoThe2nd | i wouldn't bet on their compliance. i guess its more like "nobody cared to sue them to that degree so far." | 10:47 |
| Anticom | LetoThe2nd: well the problem is, that we don't offer OTA updates currently | 10:47 |
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| Anticom | LetoThe2nd: so what is your recommendation? | 10:48 |
| LetoThe2nd | Anticom: my recommendation is: raise barriers in term by not giving them root access, not offering uploading of blank packages. you can always pipe what they manually upload through some gpg-signing and then act accordingly | 10:49 |
| LetoThe2nd | and give them root access only after ticking a NV marker, basically saying "you're totally on your own. not our problem anymore." | 10:50 |
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| Anticom | LetoThe2nd: sadly that's not how our customer relationship works | 10:50 |
| Anticom | they just won't accept that | 10:51 |
| Anticom | Anyhow the documentation on that topic seems to be missing in the manual | 10:51 |
| LetoThe2nd | Anticom: still your customer relationship has to adhere legislation, and i will not recommend or comment anything else. | 10:51 |
| LetoThe2nd | you're obliged to tell them its licensing, you're obliged to hand out source. and in many cases, you're also obliged to enable them to modify it. | 10:53 |
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| Anticom | LetoThe2nd: we do ship the source of the OS packages if anyone requests them | 10:54 |
| Anticom | that's not the issue | 10:54 |
| Anticom | However i still don't see, what exactly prevents us from securing a given state on a device | 10:54 |
| LetoThe2nd | ah yes, it was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization | 10:55 |
| LetoThe2nd | Anticom: i'm not saying you can't "secure" your own update path. just gpg-sign what ever you hand out | 10:56 |
| LetoThe2nd | been there, done that :-) | 10:56 |
| Anticom | LetoThe2nd: And i'm not allowed to configure my package manager in such a way it rejects all packages not signed by us? | 10:56 |
| LetoThe2nd | Anticom: you can configure it that way, you just have to offer a "i know what i'm doing, so screw software warranty switch" | 10:57 |
| Anticom | LetoThe2nd: and there's no common yocto-way to do that? | 10:58 |
| LetoThe2nd | like i said several times already, i don't use package management. to use your words: "its not how our customer relationship works." | 10:58 |
| Anticom | Anyone else on that topic maybe? | 10:59 |
| Anticom | LetoThe2nd: So from how i am reading the wiki page on Tivoization, restricting software to run on a specific hardware as long as the same software could run on different hardware is okay with GPLv2 basically | 11:06 |
| Anticom | Or am i missunderstanding that? | 11:06 |
| LetoThe2nd | Anticom: bbl, lunch. | 11:07 |
| Anticom | enjoy | 11:07 |
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| raykinsella78 | folks - what does virtual/update-alternatives do ? | 11:11 |
| Anticom | raykinsella78: See the comments in the source: http://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit/cgit.cgi/poky/tree/meta/classes/update-alternatives.bbclass it seems to help you with the alternatives system | 11:12 |
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| raykinsella78 | ok thanks | 11:13 |
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| Anticom | raykinsella78: for example if you have multiple editors on your device you can choose the default one to be used using update-alternatives | 11:16 |
| raykinsella78 | Anticom: Thanks - looking for a way to disable it. | 11:19 |
| rburton | Anticom: its only v3 with the tivoisation clauses, and OE has a "no v3" button. but, if you're entering this territory, speak to a lawyer :) | 11:20 |
| rburton | (https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#Tivoization) | 11:21 |
| Anticom | rburton: i've looked at the license.manifest for our image. There are some packages (e.g. bash) that are licensed under GPLv3. I'm not that fit with licensing stuff. What does that mean in pracise? | 11:21 |
| Anticom | practice* | 11:21 |
| rburton | you need to sort out as an org if gplv3 is acceptable or not in your system | 11:22 |
| rburton | the tldr is "stops the user running code they wrote", ie signature-checking bootloader | 11:23 |
| Anticom | Okay and besides not being practial, whitelisting the packages, that ship with GPLv3 and preventing any others is not an option either? | 11:23 |
| rburton | you can set a INCOMPATIBLE_LICENSES to blacklist gplv3 from entering the image, and it will fall back to gplv2 forms if available (or fail to build) | 11:24 |
| Anticom | So it's an all-or-nothing thing? either drop GPLv3 stuff and go for restricting packages or open doors wide? | 11:25 |
| rburton | well the question is do you want to stop any and all attempts at running user-build software on your product | 11:25 |
| rburton | if the user can reflash an image through the bootloader, you're fine with v3 anyway | 11:26 |
| rburton | or copy a binary to the device over ssh | 11:26 |
| Anticom | rburton: the basic problem is, that our users often don't know what they're doing. This may cause the devices to malfunction and we have to repair them again. We just want to make it harder for them to tinker with our devices. And having a message "Please confirm you know what you're doing" never stopped anyone :/ | 11:27 |
| Anticom | wait what? if it's possible to flash an entirely other image to the device it's okay to reject unsigned packages? | 11:28 |
| Anticom | the image lives on an SD card which can easily be flashed | 11:28 |
| rburton | there you go then | 11:28 |
| Anticom | great news! | 11:28 |
| rburton | you're not stopping someone rebuilding the entire image from scratch and booting it | 11:28 |
| Anticom | okay so now the only thing that's left is the missing documentation on how to configure yocto :] | 11:29 |
| rburton | if you had a bootloader in flash that checked a signature on the rootfs, then that would be in violation | 11:29 |
| rburton | yeah no idea how to do that with opkg, and opkg is still only has in-progress support for signing anyway | 11:29 |
| Anticom | rburton: we're currently using rpm anyway | 11:31 |
| Anticom | I've found this http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.embedded.yocto.general/28097 which kind of might get me to sign my packages but i dunno how to tell yocto to configure rpm to reject unsigned packages | 11:31 |
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| rburton | this is less a yocto question and more a rpm question | 11:34 |
| Anticom | rburton: I was just hoping there was some undocumented trick, since e.g. packaging is abstracted away too | 11:35 |
| Anticom | Guess i'm not lucky today | 11:35 |
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| LetoThe2nd | well isn't hiding/abstracting the packaging process away exactly what i told you earlier? | 12:22 |
| LetoThe2nd | 11:49 < LetoThe2nd> Anticom: my recommendation is: raise barriers in term by not giving them root access, not offering uploading of blank packages. you can always pipe what they manually upload through some gpg-signing and then act accordingly | 12:23 |
| LetoThe2nd | le sigh | 12:23 |
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| LetoThe2nd | besides, IANAL - for reliable details, i'd suggest to contact dr. carsten emde @ oasdl. he knows things like that. | 12:24 |
| LetoThe2nd | s/oasdl/osadl/ | 12:24 |
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| LetoThe2nd | and by the way, "our users often don't know what they're doing" is just the reason why we don't believe in package management ;-) | 12:25 |
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| Anticom | LetoThe2nd: So how are you deploying and applying updates? | 12:28 |
| Anticom | Reflashing the entire system? | 12:28 |
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| LetoThe2nd | of course. | 12:31 |
| LetoThe2nd | so we are sure the state is coherent. | 12:31 |
| LetoThe2nd | the road of manual package updates with dependencies leads straught to hell, if the system doesn't have access to a repository to resolve. | 12:32 |
| Anticom | LetoThe2nd: And how do you handle configuration stuff? | 12:32 |
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| LetoThe2nd | imagine your application consists of packages a, b andc, with revisions. lets call them a1, b1, c1. c is depending on same or higher revision of b and a, b is depending on the same or higher revision of a. so you start with (a1, b1, c1). | 12:34 |
| LetoThe2nd | then you hand out b2, because of bugfixes. | 12:34 |
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| LetoThe2nd | but probably that doesn reach all systems, if updates are manual. then you hand out c2. now, whom will you hand b2 also? how to tell them what to do? | 12:35 |
| LetoThe2nd | that kind of combinatorial complexity is something we are convinced that we cannot handle. | 12:35 |
| Anticom | All needed updated packages will be provided in an archive and left there forever | 12:35 |
| LetoThe2nd | i thought you don't have OTA? e.g. no repository? | 12:36 |
| Anticom | and the runtime package manager will ensure not to install any package when it depends on a not provided dependency | 12:36 |
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| Anticom | LetoThe2nd: I said we're deploying updates via an archive which will be copied to the device | 12:36 |
| Anticom | atm at least | 12:36 |
| Anticom | OTA updates may be enabled somewhen in the future | 12:36 |
| Anticom | but they'll remain optional even then | 12:37 |
| Anticom | As long as our RDEPEND of our packages is maintained correctly there shouldn't be an issue with runtime updates | 12:37 |
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| LetoThe2nd | well, if you think you can handle that infrastructure... | 12:39 |
| LetoThe2nd | and the complaints of the users saying "update didn't work, there was an error displayed" (when your runtime pm 'took care') | 12:40 |
| LetoThe2nd | but again, its your product, your maintenance, your everything. i just can tell you what we saw in our systems. | 12:40 |
| Anticom | LetoThe2nd: Sure and i appreciate that - honnestly :) | 12:41 |
| LetoThe2nd | and configuration stuff is no magic in complete image updates. its just an additional rw partition that gets mounted somewhere. | 12:42 |
| LetoThe2nd | even if you go for runtime pm, make sure you can later offer a full image upgrade as a kind of emergency measure. | 12:42 |
| LetoThe2nd | mind that runtime pm is not only the cost in memory, its also that you need to provide an ui, testing, documentation, etc. | 12:43 |
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| LetoThe2nd | together with infrastructure and maintenance, it becomes quite costly. | 12:43 |
| LetoThe2nd | so if you go for it, make really *absolutely* sure that the one who has to pay for it afterwards knows about those secondary costs, and is willing to pay. | 12:45 |
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| minipada | Hello, is there a way to copy a whole folder in a recipe ? | 13:05 |
| mborzecki | minipada: just call cp in proper task | 13:07 |
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| minipada | thx | 13:08 |
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| awaisb | rburton: sorry for pinging you directly | 13:18 |
| awaisb | rburton: can you help with linux-yocto mailing list subscription issue i am in? | 13:19 |
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| rburton | awaisb: did you reply to the confirmation mail? | 13:49 |
| awaisb | rburton: i am not getting any confirmation emails... :( | 13:49 |
| rburton | check your spam folder | 13:49 |
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| rburton | if nothing in there, mail michael@yoctoproject.org | 13:50 |
| awaisb | nothing there :( ill email michael then, thanks | 13:50 |
| rburton | possibly your mail server is rejecting the mail from our server | 13:51 |
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| awaisb | hmmmm | 13:54 |
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| awaisb | but i am subscribed to other mailman run lists | 13:56 |
| awaisb | oh | 13:56 |
| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #712 of nightly-x86-64 is complete: Failure [failed BuildImages BuildImages_1 Running ESDK Sanity Tests] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-x86-64/builds/712 | 13:56 | |
| Ulfalizer | it's not possible to have a different PREFERRED_PROVIDER_foo for two images that are part of the same build (bitbake invocation), right? | 13:56 |
| awaisb | rburton: on another mailing list (meta-amd) which is probably on the same server i had the same problem | 13:57 |
| Ulfalizer | that seems like it'd be messy to implement... | 13:57 |
| awaisb | and i had to contact the administrator directly for subscription | 13:57 |
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| awaisb | well lets see | 13:57 |
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| * Ulfalizer pokes rburton | 13:59 | |
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| karobar | has anyone built gnome-session from the jethro branch of meta-gnome? I'm getting implicit-function-declaration errors during do_compile | 14:36 |
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| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #692 of nightly-x86-lsb is complete: Failure [failed BuildImages] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-x86-lsb/builds/692 | 14:53 | |
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| stwcx | Has anyone used icecc in recent history? | 17:10 |
| stwcx | It seems like the icecc-create-env is fairly old and misbehaving when I try it. One of the .so's that gcc needs gets left out. | 17:10 |
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| Lucretia | can anyone help with gcc-cross-i586? I'm trying to upgrade meta-ada, I'm pretty much starting from scratch again. It's not configuring correctly, because inside tmp/work/x86_64-linux/gcc-cross-i586/4.9.3-r0/gcc-4.9.3/build.x86_64-linux.i586-poky-linux/gcc/ada/gcc-interface/Makefile I'm getting ./config/i386/t-linux64 instead of $(srcdir)/config/i386/t-linux64 | 18:26 |
| Lucretia | this is fine inside gcc/ because that's where config/ is. | 18:26 |
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| kergoth | RP: a bb.fatal() from a variable expansion results in a traceback due to BBHandledException being wrapped in ExpansionError, and therefore not captured as such at higher levels. thoughts? do we care exactly where a bb.fatal() came from? I'm thinking possibly not, but am unsure, I hate to throw away context, but it's ugly to see a traceback if it's a bb.fatal too | 18:56 |
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| denix | what is the reason IPK packaging uses --prefer-arch-to-version for images by default? | 20:11 |
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| JaMa | denix: IIRC some weird intel BSP was using older version of some package for GPU than what other package architectures were using | 20:18 |
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| JaMa | denix: crownbay for xorg it seems https://www.mail-archive.com/openembedded-core@lists.openembedded.org/msg22117.html | 20:20 |
| denix | JaMa: heh, thanks! it bit me few times already. any time to overwrite it from a distro config? it's set in a package_ipk.bbclass unconditionally... | 20:25 |
| JaMa | have you tried? OPKG_ARGS_remove = "--prefer-arch-to-version" | 20:28 |
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| seebs | okay, so | 20:31 |
| seebs | a week later, and having learned a great deal about a number of interesting things | 20:31 |
| denix | JaMa: I can sure try :) what other distros do? | 20:31 |
| seebs | the problem is that bash provides its own broken definitions of getenv and setenv | 20:31 |
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| RP | kergoth: I'm unsure. Capturing it into bugzilla to ponder might be good though? | 21:11 |
| RP | seebs: is this in connection with pseudo? | 21:16 |
| seebs | Yeah. | 21:16 |
| RP | seebs: FWIW we've been running with an increased timeout patch and haven't seen any more failures | 21:16 |
| seebs | There was this really strange problem in which, if I did "pseudo bash", the pseudo server that got started would be running in a pseudo environment, even though it definitely shouldn't have. | 21:16 |
| seebs | Turns out, if you're in bash, and you call unsetenv, you get bash's implementation of unsetenv which doesn't actually change environ. | 21:17 |
| seebs | Because they "know" that they will be able to fix up the actual environment before they spawn a child process. | 21:17 |
| seebs | Anyway, I've redone a bunch of the startup code, and I am pretty sure that I have identified multiple race conditions which were probably causing issues and making the timeouts be more of a problem than they would. | 21:17 |
| RP | seebs: so we need to test a new version of pseudo? | 21:18 |
| seebs | Basically, because of that, if you ran bash when a server wasn't started, you'd end up with bash trying to spawn a server which would try to reexec itself... and in the process it would try to report the exec to a server, causing it to spawn a server... | 21:18 |
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| seebs | I think it might be worth it. The branch I'm working on also has a thing to report a possible cause of timeout issues involving the sqlite memory database. Which would mostly be useful in that, if we were hitting the timeouts, we'd get useful logging. | 21:19 |
| seebs | What I'd sort of like to do is set the retry value significantly lower (like 10-20) and see if we can get the failures, because in theory, we shouldn't see those failures even with a low retry value. Unless something's wrong. | 21:19 |
| seebs | But I don't know how practical that would be. Also I need to get someone to code-review these changes, because they're more significant than I'm comfortable doing without code review. | 21:20 |
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| seebs | anyway, that is the answer to the mystery of why environ[N] could still have LD_PRELOAD=libpseudo.so when getenv("LD_PRELOAD") was null. | 21:27 |
| seebs | Because bash uses names reserved for the implementation, which is a horrible thing to do and I wish people who aren't me would stop. | 21:28 |
| seebs | (I feel that pseudo's "override implementation names" is at least sort of justified.) | 21:28 |
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