Thursday, 2020-01-16

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RPmoto-timo: this is such a silly problem :(00:01
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RPmoto-timo: spent hours but I think its simple00:01
moto-timoRP: same here :)00:02
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khemRP: strace it and find what all libs are in play, we do too much trickery for all these native and nativesdk quirks I do not trust what we think00:04
RPkhem: right, after staring at strace its using /usr/bin/ld00:04
moto-timokhem: good point, we might be missing something in the tarball00:04
RPkhem: if I make it use our ld it would be a god start00:05
khemno, I am interested in tracing the .so its using/loading00:05
RPkhem: been staring at strace for a while00:05
RP-Wl,--verbose was also helpful00:05
khemand perhaps -Wl,-Map,xx00:05
khemso we get a linker map00:06
khemthat gives some peek into what linker is seeing00:06
khemif its defaulting to system linker thats proobably GCC_EXEC_PREFIX is not right00:06
RPkhem: its simpler, its using the wrong linker00:06
khemRP: for tests export GCC_EXEC_PREFIX  to point to where the linker you want is ( ld that is )00:07
khemif that works then it can be worked backwards00:08
RPkhem: I can make it to use the right linker but it still has the wrong SEARCH_DIRS :)00:11
khemRP: which package are you building when that error pops up ? it seems gcc from what I can deduce00:11
RPkhem: I added in the ldscripts but its not looking at them and using its internal linker script. Any idea how to force it to use external files?00:12
khemRP: your doing :) deleting scripttempl is perhaps biting here00:12
RPkhem: its failing in gcc-cross-initial but its trivial to make it break outside that with just the buildtools tarball alone00:13
RPkhem: its always my fault :)00:13
khemI see,00:13
khemRP: set LIB_SEARCH_DIRS00:14
khemenv var00:14
khemand see if linker picks it00:14
khemI am still trying to poke at where the hole is00:15
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khemRP: is it using some sort of nativesdk-binutils too ?00:18
RPkhem: yes, we need nativesdk-gcc using nativesdk-binutils00:18
khemwhere are recipes ?00:19
RPkhem: bitbake builttools-extended-tarball00:19
RPkhem: let me dump my status into email00:19
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khemRP: can you try to disable 0004-Point-scripts-location-to-libdir.patch for nativesdk case in binutils00:22
RPkhem: sent email, sorry its a bit convoluted00:27
RPkhem: I need to sleep, too tired to keep going with this now. Will quickly try dropping that though00:27
mischiefis ALTERNATIVE_TARGET_${PN}-foo[name] = "..." supposed to work..?00:30
mischiefif i try setting it it seems to be ignored00:30
moto-timowhere are you setting it?00:32
mischiefin my recipe.00:32
mischiefi am trying to use the 'ALTERNATIVE_TARGET_pkg[name] = "target"' syntax, as i have one recipe that creates multiple packages00:33
mischiefi am going to see if doing it in python works, as the psplash recipe does00:35
RPkhem: didn't help :(00:37
RPkhem: dumped more into email00:39
RPI need tosleep00:39
JaMatime to yield()00:40
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mischiefsigh, doesn't seem to work00:58
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mischiefALTERNATIVE_TARGET_pkg[name] = "target" does not work but ALTERNATIVE_TARGET_pkg = "target" does.. but i need multiple alternatives for a single package01:34
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mischiefnow i'm really baffled01:39
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mischiefif i use ${PN} inside of <pkg> it does not work, but if i manually expand ${PN} inside of <pkg> it does work01:39
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yoctiNew news from stackoverflow: How to store pyc files with setuptools3 in bitbake recipe in the same way setuptools does? <>02:58
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yoctiNew news from stackoverflow: php://input stream is empty on lighttpd and yocto based image <> || using EXTRA_OECMAKE doesn't have any effect in cmake variable in bitbake recipe <>05:29
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PinkSnakeHello, I have on git repo with several lib sources inside, the question is : what is the best way to configure a recipe to choose which library we want to install on the target ? PACKAGECONFIG or something else ? Thx.07:39
erboPinkSnake: are they all mutually exlusive? Or just different libs doing different things?07:44
PinkSnakeerbo Several "individual" libraries, nothing in common. I would like just to checkout once all the repo and maybe select which I want to install. I don't know if PACKAGECONFIG is made for that. Any idea ? feel free to ask if it's not clear :)07:50
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erboPinkSnake: So the idea of not build all would be to save build time? Otherwise I would just build them all and put into different packages so it's easy to just pull in those you want in the images. Otherwise I guess PACKAGECONFIG could be used to just build the ones you actually want.07:57
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PinkSnakeerbo it's totally right. I have a repo like this : and I would like to do something like that: Looks dirty :(  Maybe I have to configure a CMakelists/ autotools ? Doesn't matter what I have to do I would like someting proper :)08:07
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khemthere are few ways to handle such cases, one is packageconfig route and it seems you can add --enable/--disable options or some other component build system to provide knobs which can be instrumented via packageconfig08:26
khemother way is you write separate recipe for each one of the libs while checking out the source once in work-shared/ much like what gcc-source recipe does or linux-yoto recipe does as an example,08:27
khemsuppose if your libs are shared objects and there are apps which link to them, then shlibs can automatically add the needed solibs to image once the app is added via IMAGE_INSTALL08:28
yoctiNew news from stackoverflow: Difference between ldconfig and ldconfig.real <>08:29
khemso app <- and is built by then only will be built, in packageconfig approach whatever you enabled as a set of packageconfig all of that will build08:29
PinkSnakeThank you for advice, I'm not sure to understand how to made all-in-one recipe, so as the main trouble is not checking out all sources for each lib, i'm going to take look to clone in work-shared, but have a top Makefile and pass EXTRA_OEMAKE should to the trick alos isn't it ?08:34
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qschulzPinkSnake: IIUC the backlog, you build all libraries in one recipe. Then you create a package for each lib (`PACKAGES +=` or even DYNAMIC_PACKAGES if you're feeling it (I never used it)), and set FILES_${PACKAGEXYZ} = "" for each package = lib08:36
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qschulzPinkSnake: dependency at build time is on the whole recipe but rdepends is either pulled automagically by Yocto or you add an explicit RDEPENDS_${PN} += "<PACKAGEXYZ> <PACKAGEABC>" etc.08:37
PinkSnakeqschulz Nice, that looks like the better idea! Thank you to all of you for your time !08:38
qschulzPinkSnake: OR, if your source code is actually under git, you can use one recipe per lib and use "subpath" parameter in SRC_URI =>
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PinkSnakeqschulz Haa, as I have already do all recipes, "subpath" looks like a really good alternative to not waste to much time on that (y)08:41
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khemwell, you still will carry full .git folder with subpath08:43
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qschulzkhem: could you explain a little bit more, I actually considered subpath a few times but never used it, so eager to learn what are the consequences of such a parameter08:44
khemnot sure how big your monorepo is, if its not that big I think using simple recipes are ok, since it would fetch whole repo once and thten untar it with recipes ( if you write multiple recipes )08:44
PinkSnakeqschulz khem In fact the repo is not really big, but as I made a refact of all Yocto project I just want to do that proper. I will try to test subpath and packageconfig to take a look08:46
khemqschulz: it uses git-read-tree08:49
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LetoThe2ndkhem: hey what are you8 doing in my timezone?!?09:00
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qschulzkhem: ok I need to do some reading first :) thanks09:09
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ifanHi, I'm trying to build an old version of busybox that is failing with : In file included from applets/usage.c:11:0:| include/applets.h:268:17: error: 'login_trivial_usage' undeclared here (not in a function)|  IF_LOGIN(APPLET(login, BB_DIR_BIN, BB_SUID_REQUIRE)).....09:43
ifanscripts/ recipe for target 'applets/usage' failed| make[1]: *** [applets/usage] Error 109:43
LetoThe2ndifan: if i had to guess, then i'd say broken config / compile state09:49
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ifanLetoThe2nd: rebooting the system, cleaning fixed the problem10:06
ifanIf you dont mind me asking, how could you see that10:06
LetoThe2ndifan: intuition. it felt like parts had been compiled with one config, parts with another10:07
ifanOkay, thanks again :)10:12
LetoThe2ndhave fun!10:12
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angelo__what does this mean exactly "Package version for package libgcc went backwards" ?10:17
LetoThe2ndangelo__: that you built the package at least twice, and PV was lower in the later build that in the former.10:18
rburtonif you're jumping around releases and testing upgrades, it's normal and thats why i turn it off10:18
Yatekiiqschulz: devtool modify devtool build devtool target-deploy worked like a charm. the question is now how I can edit and commit my actual application. I found devtool finish which supposedly pushes my changes to the recipe and removes it from the workspace but hoiw do I actually make changes and commit them? also, when I open the devshell via bitbake I can edit the sources and then got from there but that seems awfull ycumbersame as I'd always have to open the10:18
Yatekii devshell, edit, close the devshell, build, deploy to target, and then iterate this ...10:18
rburtonif you're not doing that then something went wrong10:18
LetoThe2ndrburton: cue: "jump around" - house of pain10:18
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qschulzYatekii: I don't use devshell, I don't even know what it's supposed to do :D10:27
qschulzwhen you did a devtool modify you should have gotten a path to where the sources are extracted10:28
qschulzso you go there and you commit things there?10:28
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nacknickWhy in my Yocto image */proc/config.gz* is missing?10:31
LetoThe2ndnacknick: probably its not set in the kernel config10:31
LetoThe2nd(as long as proc is mounted and not completely empty. but thats pretty much an edge case)10:32
nacknickLetoThe2nd: Why should I do to set it?10:32
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LetoThe2ndits a kernel config like any other10:33
LetoThe2ndi've witnessed your struggles yesterday and sorry, i do neither have the time nor energy to get invested in that topic again. all i can do is give you the reason and where to start looking.10:34
nacknickI added `CONFIG_SECCOMP_FILTER=y` to *.scc* file like qschulz explained to me yesterday, it seems like the kernel was rebuilt, but I want to make sure this feature was added to the kernel. Without kernel's config file I don't know how to do it10:36
paulbarkernacnick: Look in something like `tmp/work-shared/<MACHINE>/kernel-build-artifacts/.config` after the kernel was built10:38
paulbarkernacknick: ^^^10:38
nacknickLetoThe2nd: Thanks. Actually I tried today to add `CONFIG_IKCONFIG_PROC=y` hopefully it will add the config file - but it didn't. I will read if there is something new in the link you sent10:39
nacknickpaulbarker: I found it inside `kernel-source/tools/testing/selftests/seccomp/config:CONFIG_SECCOMP_FILTER=y` - but I want to see it in the final image on the RPI310:40
paulbarkerThe .config file used in the build should be in kernel-build-artifacts10:40
paulbarkerAssuming you're on a recent yocto version10:41
nacknickNo. I use yocto 2.4.410:42
nacknickpaulbarker: "rocko"10:43
paulbarkerAh. Have a look in the kernel workdir then10:43
qschulznacknick: I suggest to check that config options do not depend on other options10:44
millonidoes yocto support/are the plans to support SRC_URI[sha512sum] ?10:45
LetoThe2ndmilloni: doesn't seem to be used/supported in current state at least. any particular need/usecase?10:46
milloninot really, just curiosity10:46
millonisomeone on my team suggested using it instead of 25610:46
millonimore bits aint bad :)10:46
LetoThe2ndmilloni: well it actually would double the length of the checksum in the recipes, which are pretty ugly already.10:48
milloniLetoThe2nd: i see you're an aesthetician like me10:49
LetoThe2ndmilloni: and given that its just for integrity detection (i don't think we need to fear hash collisions or forged archives), i can't actually see any benefit, only cost.10:49
milloniLetoThe2nd: i thought it was, among other things, for integrity detection in the security sense, that is for protection against "forget archives"10:50
LetoThe2ndmilloni: sent a PoC that you can forge an archive that still compiles :)10:51
milloninot that it is a likely thing to happen but it is in my threat model10:51
LetoThe2nd(exploiting a hash collision, of course)10:51
millonii cant with sha256sum10:51
millonino one can, as far as i can tell10:52
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LetoThe2ndmilloni: real world answer: if your threat model is so advanced that it cares about this, then you should certainly be able to push the needed changes upstream and maintain them.10:52
milloniit's not so advanced10:52
millonimy collegaue's argument was just "more bits aint bad"10:53
rburtonwould be a trivial patch to support it as an option10:53
rburtonwe should just have a number of hashing schemes and just ask that at least one is set10:54
paulbarkermilloni: Make him use signatures several GB in length. That will cure the "more bits aint bad" syndrome10:54
LetoThe2ndlike i said. not bad, but they come at a cost. and at the moment probably nobody cares to pay the cost, how ever little it is.10:54
millonipaulbarker: i think we just need to make a blockchain out of it ;)10:55
milloniusing AI, in the cloud, of course10:55
LetoThe2ndblockchain jokes as so 2010s10:57
milloniwhat's the new shiny technology of 2020s then?10:57
LetoThe2ndcan't tell after two weeks yet. ask me the day after tomorrow, mkay?10:58
ecclescakemilloni: gimmie a minute to train an AI to name 2020s tech...10:58
millonioh hello ecclescake, i didnt know you were here10:59
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BoJonesHello, I'm trying to create an image that includes another image (I'm making a USB install stick), but I cannot get the dependencies right.11:34
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BoJonesSo I have two recipes . <yocto-image> and <yocto-image-USBINSTALLER> I have tried adding <yocto-image> to RDEPENDS in the <yocto-image-USBINSTALLER> recipe11:35
LetoThe2ndBoJones: thats no dependency usecase, but a multiconfig one11:36
BoJonesLetoThe2nd, multiconfig ..11:37
BoJonesInteresting .. I'll have a look11:37
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stuom1because it's a pain to google anything related to "install" command, can somebody tell how to set the file executable with install?11:39
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LetoThe2ndstuom1: install -m xxx takes the rwx mode as xxx :)11:41
LetoThe2ndstuom1: and "man install" in google gives me this as #1:
stuom1so is it "install 644+x" then?11:42
LetoThe2ndstuom1: i guess you should rather already finish the calculation.11:42
stuom1i mean in setting excutable in chmod is "+x"11:43
LetoThe2ndyou know what "644" means?11:43
BoJonesLetoThe2nd, do you have an example on how to use multiconfigs to include another image ? My google-foo is not good on this one.11:44
stuom1ah yeah now i was mixing with the other format11:44
LetoThe2ndBoJones: not yet, sorry.11:44
BoJonesLetoThe2nd, Ok11:45
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dexterlbhello.. I have added the meta-browser layer and depended on the chromium recipe. This successfully builds chromium. I have added 'IMAGE_INSTALL_append = " chromium-x11"' to my custom layer's layer.conf. The package, however, doesn't get installed in the resulting image: it is present in deploy/, but it is not installed. What else do I need to do?11:50
LetoThe2nddexterlb: 1) stuff like this should not go into the layer.conf11:51
LetoThe2nddexterlb: 2) check bitbake -e if it actually end up there11:51
LetoThe2nddexterlb: 3) check your image if it actually honors IMAGE_INSTALL, there are ways around it.11:51
dexterlb1) I'm sorry: in fact, it is in my image recipe (which inherits core-image). I don't know why I said layer.conf. Is that correct?11:55
dexterlb2) it appears in many places in bitbake-e, including IMAGE_INSTALL and PACKAGE_INSTALL11:55
dexterlb3) how do I do that?11:55
LetoThe2nddexterlb: if its in the image file, shows up in bitbake -e and your image inherits core-image, then all should be fine11:57
dexterlbbut it is not installed (none of the files that are in the package appear in the target filesystem, and 'opkg list' doesn't show it)11:58
LetoThe2nddexterlb: what does the manifest of the image say?11:58
dexterlbLetoThe2nd:  where do I find this manifest?11:59
LetoThe2nddexterlb: right next to the image file11:59
dexterlbthe manifest contains the package12:00
LetoThe2nddexterlb: that doesn't fit12:01
LetoThe2ndif the manifest contains it, then it is installed. chances are that the package either does not contain what you think (dpkg can be used to inspect .ipk contents) or you are looking at the wrong image.12:02
dexterlbyou're right, it doesn't.. I think I've done something utterly stupid, like inspecting the wrong image - let me verify12:02
Yatekiiqschulz: devshell opens a new shell and loads the env for your recipe and cds into it's source folder12:04
Yatekiiqschulz: I thought I was supposed to use it but i am more than happy if I don't need to12:04
Yatekiiqschulz: ERROR: output path /home/yatekii/repos/ecarup/build-openstlinuxtkrt-stm32mp1-raichu-cubemx/workspace/sources/raichu-core already exists and is non-empty // I did a devtool reset raichu-core and then devtool modify raichu-core ...12:05
Yatekiiah hmm reset said: NOTE: Leaving source tree /home/yatekii/repos/ecarup/build-openstlinuxtkrt-stm32mp1-raichu-cubemx/workspace/sources/raichu-core as-is; if you no longer need it then please delete it manually12:05
Yatekiinotr sure what I am supposed to do with this info tbh12:05
* rburton finally timed a build on the server he never uses12:18
rburton30 minutes for core-image-sato from scratch \o/12:18
LetoThe2ndrburton: but hot download, i guess.12:19
* LetoThe2nd is only half impressed, then.12:19
rburtondon't actually know how fast the connectivity is where it sits12:20
rburtonkernel downloads at 27M/s12:21
LetoThe2ndnot bad.12:21
rburtonbetter than my home connection for sure12:21
rburtonby about 27 times in fact12:21
LetoThe2ndbut seriously. if i would have been completely impressed, then you would have no mission in life anymore.12:21
rburtonso i noticed this build was blocking on gstreamer finishing so obviously i'm doing a clean build with the mesonification patches in12:21
Mat80Hi, i have a question regarding a recipes for a pypi python package, with "inherit pipy" is the recipes suppose to download also the dependencies automatically?12:25
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Mat80for instance I'm trying to use python-sphinx in the meta-virtualization12:25
PinkSnakekhem erbo FYI subpath works like a charm. Thh for the hint !12:25
Mat80the recipe is very simple. inherit pypi, package name, checksums, licence and various variable for the descrition12:26
Mat80no RDEPEND12:27
LetoThe2ndMat80: it probably should. why are you asking?12:27
Mat80the recipes build and create the package, but of course sphinx need some dependencies and if I try to run sphinx on the target machine it fails because of missing dependencies12:28
stuom1@Mat80 it doesnt12:28
stuom1at least not with the few pypi packages I have experience with12:28
rburtonMat80: it does not download depends, you need to package those too12:29
stuom1bitbake doesnt complain but trying to run on target, you get import errors12:29
Mat80I'm a yocto newbie and this seems still a lot black magic...but I don't understand where the magic stops and where I should do something12:29
rburtonmeta-python is your friend12:29
Mat80rburton what do you mean?12:29
rburtonmeta-python is full of pypi recipes12:29
Mat80ah ok12:30
Mat80i'll have a look12:30
rburtonoh, just read again12:30
rburtonif its giving missing deps then the RDEPENDS needs improving in the recipe12:30
rburtonjust add what it moaned about until it works12:30
qschulzYatekii: well, remove it :)? but do it only after you have made sure that your changes are in the layers. I think devtool creates a bbappend with the patches btu I'm not 100% certain. Check if there's any change in any layer, check those are the ones you want, then you can get rid of the sources for raichu-core12:30
qschulzYatekii: what devtool does is that it creates a new layer with new recipes whose source code is in workspace/sources. When you do devtool reset it "disables" this recipe but leaves you with the sources so that it does not remove something you wanted to keep12:31
qschulznacknick: I don't know exactly how does one create config fragments but I can explain how *I* would do it.12:33
Mat80but can it be that a recipe on the virtualization layer build the package but doesn't work? What is the "QA" situation on the various openembedded meta layers? can be a layer "problem" or can be something in my configuration?12:33
Mat80I try to rephrase: should I trust what comes in the layer and search the problem somewhere else or not?12:34
rburtonMat80: if its just an import error then its the recipe at fault.  it assumes some python bits are present, and they are not.12:34
rburtonMat80: most people forget that you can't rely on the full standard library12:34
Mat80ok ty12:34
rburtonso ensuring that your image has python3-modules installed gets that and may just work around the problem12:35
Mat80this is the error pkg_resources.DistributionNotFound: The 'sphinxcontrib-websupport' distribution was not found and is required by Sphinx12:36
qschulznacknick: I would try to run first make savedefconfig to get the defconfig of the .config in use, copy that one somewhere safe, then run make menuconfig for the kernel. Find a way to enable CONFIG_SECCOMP_FILTER from there (hit "/" key and enter SECCOMP_FILTER. Then if you don't have the option to select it, work out the depends on and enable the needed ones. Once that's done, enable SECCOM_FILTER option.12:37
qschulzExit and save. Then run make savedefconfig and put the diff between the two defconfigs in.scc file12:37
Mat80My guessing is that i have to create a recipe for
qschulznacknick: Kconfig options have a dependency mechanism (`selects` and `depends on`). If you're putting CONFIG_SECCOMP_FILTER=y but SECCOMP_FILTER actually `depends on` another disabled Kconfig option, then it's a no-op. You need to enable the depends on AND your Kconfig option.12:40
qschulznacknick: from a VERY quick look, it looks like you should make sure that your arch supports it (i don't recall which rpi you're building an image for but if it's aarch64, then you're fine on that side) then check CONFIG_SECCOMP and CONFIG_NET are enabled. Check this with menuconfig honestly and if your SECCOMP is not enabled follow my process or a better one if there's one (neevr used kernel config12:45
qschulzfragments before so I don't know how's one supposed to create them)12:45
qschulzhappy to hear if there's any other documented way to create fragments :)12:50
Mat80Can someone explain how a recipe like this can work at all?
rburtonMat80: what bit confuses you?12:53
Mat80there is not even the name of the package to build12:54
stuom1pypi recipes take the package name from the name of the recipe12:54
Mat80stuom1 ah thats why12:54
rburtonpypi class uses PN to fetch12:54
rburtonand distutils does the build12:54
rburtonits missing RDEPENDS, which is naughty12:54
Mat80i'm really sorry for this stupid questions12:54
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rburtonlook at the pypi class, its really simple12:54
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nacknickqschulz: armv712:59
nacknickI tried to run `bitbake -c menuconfig virtual/kernel` and last lines I get after run it are: `menubox.c:(.text+0x3c3): undefined reference to `wrefresh'collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit statusscripts/ recipe for target 'scripts/kconfig/mconf' failedmake[3]: *** [scripts/kconfig/mconf] Error13:04
nacknick1/home/user/yocto/poky/build/tmp/work-shared/raspberrypi3/kernel-source/Makefile:541: recipe for target 'menuconfig' failedmake[2]: *** [menuconfig] Error 2Makefile:150: recipe for target 'sub-make' failedmake[1]: *** [sub-make] Error 2Makefile:24: recipe for target '__sub-make' failedmake: *** [__sub-make] Error 2Command failed.Press any key to13:04
nacknickcontinue... `13:04
kanavinhip hip hooray green build
kanavinRP ^^^13:04
kanavin"send qa email" seems not always working though13:04
qschulznacknick: *shrug*13:07
qschulzaren't you missing libncurses-dev package on your host system by any chance? I don't know if that's the error returned by menuconfig usually but maybe?13:08
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nacknickqschulz: you're right :)13:10
fullstopIs there a recipe target which only runs if the package is installed through a package manager?  That is, I'd like to reload udev or systemd units if the package was installed via opkg but have no need to do this on the initial boot.13:10
fullstoppkg_postinst_ontarget_${PN} is close but those run on a freshly flashed device on the first boot.13:11
qschulzfullstop: there is a difference between "no need" and "shouldn't absolutely happen"13:12
fullstopCan I rephrase it to "absolutely should not happen" ?13:12
kanavinfullstop, why is pkg_postinst() not suitable?13:13
kanavinfullstop, for systemd you generally need to just inherit systemd and it will do the right thing13:15
fullstopwhen does pkg_postinst() run?13:15
kanavinfullstop, on rootfs generation, and on target when packages are updated via package manager13:16
kanavinbut as I said, if you just want the standard, tested behaviour for systemd and udev, then inherit systemd without further hassle13:17
fullstopkanavin: Here's one example.. and I'm certainly open to accepting that I am doing this wrong.  One of my packages requires that another service is disabled.. so the postinst_ontarget disables the other service.13:17
fullstopThis makes the first boot fail / hang forever.13:17
kanavinyou probably should not be installing the other service to begin with. Disabling them from pkg_postinst doesn't seem right.13:19
kanavinor write package dependencies such that your package replaces the other service, then it will be deinstalled.13:20
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RPkanavin: not quite 100% green but definitely better than many builds :)13:24
yoctiNew news from stackoverflow: Unable to login with root user on yocto build image for beagle bone black <>13:30
fullstopSo I want dnsmasq but I don't want to install the service.  I guess I should append the dnsmasq package to skip the service part instead of touching it in mine.13:31
LetoThe2ndfullstop: or just disable it through your distro13:32
LetoThe2ndsomething like SYSTEMD_ENABLE_pn-dnsmask = "false" or similar should probably work13:33
fullstopHow do I go about doing that?13:33
fullstopwow, I'll take a look at that option13:33
LetoThe2ndyou have to iron out the details yourself, but looking at the systemd class should give an idea of the needed variables13:34
qschulzfullstop: INITSCRIPT_PARAMS_${PN} = "remove" ?13:35
qschulzarf, that might be sysvinit-specific13:35
qschulzbut i'm sure there is something more or less in that shape13:35
qschulzso what LetoThe2nd said basically13:36
* LetoThe2nd always says basic things.13:37
Yatekiiqschulz: ah i see. so whilst in development i basically never devtool reset then?13:38
qschulzYatekii: if you're doing you're development with devtool yes. You could have used the AUTOREV thing which you set up yesterday13:39
qschulzoh wow *your development*13:41
Yatekiiqschulz: i use autorev13:42
qschulzYatekii: well, not really, you're using devtool first :)13:42
qschulzAUTOREV is not the mechanism used by devtool13:42
Yatekiiwell i need to use it for deployment ;) but that only works if i did update before13:46
qschulzyou could perfectly have a bumped version of your sw and work with devtool for it, create the patches with it, send a patch or an MR and then bump the recipe. Each their workflow :)13:48
Yatekiithats just tedious lol13:49
Yatekiii want "build && deploy" everything else is completely inacceptable for development13:49
Yatekiiwhy would i fuck around with versions or patches?13:49
LetoThe2nddevtool modify xx, keep in that state, then repeat "devtool build xx && devtool deploy-target xx"13:50
Yatekiiyep thats what i am doing and thats also why i need the devtool13:51
Yatekiithats why i said autorev doesnt help at all :P13:52
LetoThe2nddevtool modify and autorev don't have anything to do with each other13:53
fullstopthanks everyone!13:55
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qschulzYatekii: FYI, you shouldn't use AUTOREV in builds. So when you have something decently ready, use commit hash instead. Build systems are supposed to provide the same build if it's built today or in 10 years. AUTOREV does not allow that.13:57
qschulzYatekii: what I was saying is: 1) no you don't actually use AUTOREV, you use devtool. Devtool overrides your recipe with its own. Devtool does not use your AUTOREV thing after it's gotten the sources. (it uses externalsrc mechanism)13:58
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qschulz2) some people use AUTOREV for fast moving repo during heavy development when in a team. if you're alone, devtool is perfectly fine. I personally see devtool as a debug tool only but that's my opinion14:00
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rburtonoh c'mon ltp do_package_qa taking 21 minutes and counting is silly14:03
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RPrburton: I did try and speed that up at one point :/14:07
rburtonwhat the hell is it doing14:07
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RPrburton: don't remember :(14:09
RPcan't find the speedup patch I had14:10
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fullstopdefinitely doing quality assurance14:17
rburtonfullstop: i certainly hope so14:18
fullstopIt's gonna be so quality14:19
rburtoni wish that was the case14:20
Yatekiiqschulz: ok thanks for the explanation :) well so you are telling me when you are developping your user space application you make a commit for every small feature you implement and then change the has and fully rebuild?14:21
YatekiiI can waste my time in better fashion ;)14:21
qschulzI was just saying in other words what LetoThe2nd said. devtool and AUTOREV are two different things. Each their use.14:23
qschulzI don't work in userspace. Kernel is where I stop. Yocto is my foot in the userspace world. devtool isn't so much fun for debugging the kernel :)14:23
Yatekiihmm ok I see :)14:27
Yatekiithx for all the help :)14:27
Yatekiiimma code a bit on my application and then I'll see what workflow goes best14:28
qschulzpleasure, happy coding14:30
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Linus_SWEHi, Im trying to do a 'bitbake -c populate_sdk core-image-minimal' but it doesnt work because I use dpkg for packagemanagement. Is there a fix/patch for this problem?14:49
rburtonwasn't aware it was broken14:51
rburtoncan you file a bug14:51
rburtondpkg is the least-tested option so i do suggest just switching to opkg or rpm14:51
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Linus_SWEThanks. But I cant, its a customer demand :(14:52
rburtondo they actually use the feeds though?14:52
Linus_SWESorry, I dont understand. (Im super new with Yocto)14:53
LetoThe2ndLinus_SWE: if you are only producing images and sdks, then the actual package management tool does not matter, as it appears nowhere14:56
rburtoncustomer may be asking for dpkg but unless they're actually using dpkg on the target there's no point14:56
rburtonand for a sdk, its irrelevant anyway14:57
rburtonbut please do file a bug14:57
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LetoThe2ndLinus_SWE: it only matters if they really need runtime package management on the target (which in turn requires at least some form of package repository server)14:57
stuom1has anyone tried to build midori browser for wayland?14:57
Linus_SWEThanks. They have local repos for deb-packages and want to use the workflow for the device we are building for them now.14:58
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Linus_SWEIll try it on a clean state and if it is the same Ill file a bug.14:59
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fullstopI tried both opkg and rpm.. opkg is _significantly_ smaller in terms of image size.15:06
LetoThe2ndit is for sure15:09
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creichwhy does using opkg result in smaller images?15:16
fullstopdnf + rpm + python + other deps is bigger than opkg, from what I can see.15:17
LetoThe2ndplus, the opkg db is heavily size optimized15:18
stacktrustQuestion on dependencies and sysroots:  if P1 depends on P2 which depends on P3, I'm seeing P3 files (headers) in the sysroot for P1.  How does bb determine that these headers are needed? In some cases, I've been able to exclude them via DEPENDS_${PN}_remove, but in packages with many (60+) auto-detected dependencies, it's non-trivial.15:18
fullstopI didn't compare the db or package sizes, but that makes sense.15:19
stacktrustRelated question: what's the best way to generate an ascii dependency graph like the one at the bottom of this page? The tool is looking for, but -g currently generates tasks- and
LetoThe2ndstacktrust: enable buildhistory15:19
LetoThe2ndthat will give you full graphs for about each and everything15:19
creichthx for the info :)15:20
stacktrustSorry, got that dependency question wrong, should be: if P1 depends on P2 which depends on P3, I'm seeing P3 files (headers) in the sysroot for15:20
stacktrustThird try: if P1 depends on P2 which depends on P3, I'm seeing P1 files (headers) in the sysroot for P3.  How does bb determine that these headers are needed?  With shared libraries, it can look at binary files to determine dependencies.  What is it doing for header files?15:22
stacktrustLetoThe2nd: will look at buildhistory, thanks15:22
creichstacktrust: not sure if i got your question right.. so are there headers you don't expect?15:23
erbostacktrust: that sounds odd, if the dependencies are that way it seems really odd that P1 headers end up in P3 sysroot. How can they, when P3 have to be built before P1 can be built, due to dependencies?15:25
erboSounds a bit circular15:26
stacktrustYes, one package has internal and external headers.  Some other packages depend on internal-only or external-only headers, so some headers were broken out into a standalone package.  At some point, an indirect chain get established back to the base package with all headers.  For some reason, OE puts the "external-only" headers back into the sysroot for the base package, at which point they conflict.15:27
creichright, check the dependency tree to see if there are some 'spde channels' bringing those files in15:27
stacktrustYes, I'll work with the dep tree.  If needed, will come back with a more specific example.  Thanks.15:27
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yoctiNew news from stackoverflow: Switching WiFi connection fails with dbus timeout <>16:01
rburtonkanavin: your valgrind ptest fix also made the documentation build, so i presume there's another S!=B bug in there too16:02
rburtonpackages/corei7-64-poky-linux/valgrind/valgrind-doc: PKGSIZE changed from 0 to 23152221 (+100%)16:02
kanavinrburton, right, I didn't spot that, but I guess having documentation is not a bad thing :)16:10
kanavinI was a bit disappointed that it didn't resolve all of the ptest failures, there's still about 6 that fail for other reasons16:11
kanavinI kind of want to resolve everything and drop @expectedfail from ptest16:11
MeanEngiHey, am trying to get what's going on on the server once it gets started. Just got here
MeanEngiAnyone knows if the concepts for the `Cooker`, `ProcessServer` and `Bitbakeserver` are top level concepts to understand for this level of abstraction?16:12
MeanEngiI'm guessing `Bitbakeserver` is the central server that manages the whole process. It likely spins up `ProcessServers` for individual task to run the build in parallel...16:14
MeanEngi(The `ProcessServer` inherits from  multiprocessing.Process)16:15
MeanEngiWhat I'm not clear about is the purpose of the `Cooker`16:15
MeanEngiIf anyone could shed some light on things, greatly appreciated :)16:16
MeanEngi(my end goal is to understand the overall runtime of the build and what needs to be done so that an execution of a single task can be stopped for debugging without that causing havoc in the build)16:17
kergothread cooker.py16:17
rburtonMeanEngi: if you just want to stop a single task for debugging then just stop a single task for debugging16:17
rburtoninherit that, in a python task just call pdb() somewhere, then attach your pdb16:18
rburton(you'll need rpdb installed)16:19
MeanEngirburton: I did something similar to that already it worked once I tried the first time but have started to get some strange errors. So just wanted to dive a bit see if I can get the big picture also :)16:21
rburtonwhat are the errors?  by attaching a pdb you're just causing the task to take longer16:22
MeanEngiI've let it go, will post them if I manage to get them again. Am now trying to get the concepts from the codebase16:24
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yoctiNew news from stackoverflow: Run u-boot command at startup <>17:31
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RPkhem: FWIW its finding the host and this is breaking things. We need to have our own with our own paths in to be found first17:53
RP(nativesdk-bintuils that is)17:53
RPmoto-timo: ^^^17:53
zeddiiw00t. systemap works on v5.4 and mips6417:54
zeddiionto the next.17:55
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khemRP: hmm perhaps define LD_LIBRARY_PATH in env file18:09
khemor maybe own entry in /etc/
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moto-timozeddii: \o/18:27
moto-timoRP, khem: nice to see we are getting closer to the root cause18:27
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yoctiNew news from stackoverflow: PowerPC is unable to write/read on PCI MMIO space (Unrecoverable Machine Check) <>18:31
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nhartmanHey, I'm trying to create a recipe. Upon building I get the error | /bin/sh: curl: command not found. But adding DEPENDS += "curl" doesn't resolve the problem18:38
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creichnhartman: look like you're missing curl on your host machine18:39
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nhartmanI appear to have it with curl --version18:40
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fullstoppaths such as /usr/bin are not available when building so that host binaries do not get mixed in with buildroot ones.18:43
fullstoper.. yocto ones18:43
fullstopnhartman: perhaps try something like curl-native18:44
nhartmanWill do, thanks18:45
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nhartmanfullstop: Great thanks, that fixed the issue. If you don't mind me asking, how did you know to use curl-native. Referencing, it doesn't even list that as a recipe18:49
fullstopI'm not sure if it can be added to any package or not, but -native means to build it for the arch/platform of the machine being used to build the target.18:51
fullstopso opkg would build for target, opkg-native would build it for the host.  In my case, this would result in aarch64 binaries for opkg and x86_64 binaries for opkg-native18:52
nhartmanGood to know, thanks18:53
nhartmanIs it possible that curl-native would have different/non-compatible flags than the Makefile specified?18:54
nhartmanThe actual curl command appears to be failing with "Error 77" now18:54
fullstopPretty sure that has something to do with tls certificates18:55
nhartmanHmm... I can run the curl command locally with no issues18:57
rburtoncurl-native exists because the curl recipe has BBCLASSEXTEND=native in, and that magically creates a curl-native for you18:58
rburtonand yes, curl-native doesn't know where the ssl certs are stored, so if you need them you need to tell it18:58
rburtonits a bit of a mess tbh18:59
fullstopmysteries unraveled18:59
rburtondo you actually need curl?  wget is always available18:59
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nhartmanIt's not my Makefile unfortunately. Managed to get it working by manually copying my certs in19:00
rburtonwhy is a makefile fetching during compile19:00
rburtonbad makefile19:00
rburtonrule is, download in do_fetch19:00
nhartmanI think it's being ran during do_configure19:01
rburtonthen you get proxies set, and the system knows what is being downloaded19:01
rburtonuseful when someone asks for your GPL compliance tarball19:01
rburtondownload something in do_configure and its not in the archive of sources used19:01
rburtonalso doesn't get cached in DL_DIR19:01
fullstopThat's not a bad option, nhartman.  I assume that the Makefile only downloads if needed?19:02
fullstopYou could fetch it in do_fetch and put it in the appropriate location for the Makefile19:03
rburtonby which he means just add the right file to SRC_URI19:03
rburtonyou can tell the fetcher to put it in the right place19:03
rburtonopencv is a great example of how to beat a dumb makefile with the bitbake stick of beating19:04
fullstopCould be tricky if there is Makefile Magic constructing the URL.19:04
nhartmanOh that's great. Is it safe to assume that the cert will be generated for a given machine19:04
fullstopDoes yocto/bitbake use the native wget?19:04
fullstopby native I don't mean -native, I mean wget from the OS.19:04
rburtonfullstop: yes19:04
rburtonfullstop: can't build wget without fetching wget :)19:05
fullstoppython http.. :-)19:05
rburtonyeah, true19:05
rburton*so tempted* to just make bitbake depend on python requests and ditch the wget fetcher19:05
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rburtonbecause the wget fetcher has to work around wget being wget19:06
khemoh use curl19:06
khemrburton: I think there is push for same thoughts in js, go, rust community, they implement everything in the respective language, its good and bad19:07
rburtoni also have a branch somewhere porting wget fetcher to curl19:07
rburtonrequests is pretty damn good19:07
khemyeah that will be a good change19:07
fullstopI like requests a lot.  It makes me wonder what the python folks were thinking with urllib.19:07
khemrburton: yes I agree, I am not opposed to it19:08
rburtonfullstop: urllib is very much building blocks19:08
rburtonthough duplo not lego19:08
fullstopI wonder what the mega bloks equivalent is19:09
khemI am not expecting bitbake to be re-implemented in other than python in near future so depending on pythonic features while adds more dependence on modules is ok19:09
moto-timorburton: requests is awesome19:10
moto-timofullstop: urlib /facepalm/19:10
moto-timokhem: especially when those modules are actively developed, mature, robust :)19:11
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khemheh sure19:16
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fullstopWith that being said, bitbake has fetched billions and billions of bytes with wget and it clearly works.19:23
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sveinseI'm toying with some cool experiments: I'm testing Yocto compilation in Azure. All up to 64-core machine. Trying to find the balance between cores, time and cost.20:01
frayI don't know how azure does it.. but be sure to factory in sstate-cache, network and downloads..  I know some folks had done this with AWS and certain configurations ended up costing only pennies a build20:02
fray(and if the result of the build needs to be exported out of there -- that usually costs more.. at least on AWS it does)20:02
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sveinsefray: Yes, network ingress of source, egress of build artifacts and storage of sstate cache is extremely important to factor in. The latter esp because it has so huge impact on the build times.20:03
sveinseIn azure you pay as you go (at least our argreement is), so the plan is to build a system that power up the bigdog build server, executes the build task, exports the results and shuts down. The lesser more cheaper servers gets to handle the front-end and serving of contents.20:05
sveinseI've created a small repo for testing basic build perfomance:
frayDoes azure have anything like the s3 service in AWS?  When I was involved that was where all of the artifacts when.. and it made it cheaper for the egress since you could access them that way20:07
sveinsefray: not sure, as I'm not into aws terms. (nor azure tbh, because this is all very new to me)20:08
paulbarkerfray: I've been playing with Backblaze B2 & Cloudflare lately. If you set it up right there's no egress charges and only $5/TB/month storage charges20:09
sveinseThere are storage blobs, so I would assume they are s3 like. I wouldn't be surprised if they were20:09
paulbarkerGot some more polish and testing to do but once it's done I'm planning to write somewhere how to set it up20:10
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nemgti-oghello. I know that LetoThe2nd told me to use my brain capacity to learn to write layers instead of trying to get sdk and extensive sdks, but my head won't let it go that easily. I guess I am stuborn. So, I am trying to run bitbake some-image- -c populate_sdk_ext but I get some error when executing a python function in exec_python_func() autogenerated..... any hint on how to debug further or where to find20:13
nemgti-ogmore information?20:13
nemgti-ogI have tried to google about it but can't seem to find anything that helps20:13
paulbarkernemgti-og: Could you post the full bitbake output via a pastebin?20:14
nemgti-ogwill do.20:14
nhartmanWhere does SRC_URI place files? Trying to copy a file with install ${WORKDIR}/file and bitbake cannot find it20:17
nemgti-ogHe paulbarker, here it is20:19
nemgti-oghey paulbarker now it IS here:
paulbarkerThat seems like a bunch of bitbake runs tagged together and I can't see the exact bitbake command which failed20:21
paulbarkerThe actual failure seems to be that nothing matches the glob '*-buildtools-nativesdk-standalone-*.sh' in the SDK_DEPLOY directory20:23
paulbarkerBut finding why that is the case may be a little more tricky20:24
nemgti-ogthat must be because it is ran insided a docker image I created... the bitbake command is: bitbake meta-ivi-image -c populate_sdk_ext (I don't know if this is the command you were referring to)20:25
paulbarkerAnd does a plain 'bitbake meta-ivi-image' work?20:25
paulbarkerI'd also test if it works outside a docker image. Docker is great for automation but not for debugging20:25
nemgti-ogbasically, i wrote a script that run (or tries to) the bitbake process inside a container of a crops/poky image20:26
nemgti-oga plain gitbake meta-ivi-image works fine20:26
JPEWnemgti-og: Are you inheriting testsdk.bbclass?20:27
JPEWAnd, do you have TESTIMAGE_AUTO set?20:27
nemgti-ogjeeeezz..... sorry but I don't know. I started yocto last week...20:28
JPEWlol, Ok20:28
JPEWDo you know what SDKMACHINE is?20:28
nemgti-ogyes I have seen that20:28
nemgti-ogi am not explicitly setting that variable in my conf/local.conf20:29
JPEWTry: bitbake -e | grep ^SDKMACHINE=20:29
nemgti-ogyeap! that equals "x86_64"20:30
JPEWOk, can you use the same method to see if "testsdk" is in the INHERIT variable? (you can also dump to a file `bitbake -e > env.txt` and look manually instead of pipe + grep)20:32
nemgti-ogMACHINE = qemux86-64 in my local.conf20:32
JPEWnemgti-og: bitbake -e is pretty useful for tracing what and why a variable is set20:33
nemgti-og"testsdk" is not in the INHERIT variable20:33
JPEWnemgti-og: OK20:33
nemgti-ogthanks JPEW. -e stands for environment I guess?20:33
JPEWnemgti-og, correct20:34
zeddiiwhenever I see an unsuscribe from the various mailing lists, I wonder if I'm getting a heads up on someone changing roles...20:34
JPEWnemgti-og, You can also be more specific if you want the environment for a specific recipe (bitbake -e my-recipe), multiconfig (bitbake -e mc:my-multiconfig) or recipe in a multiconfig (bitbake -e mc:my-multiconfig:my-recipe)20:34
nemgti-ogso... should I add testsdk to the INHERIT variable?20:35
JPEWnemgti-og, No, I was just curious because I think I've seen testsdk fail in containers before20:35
nemgti-ogha ok. so you're suggesting me to try to find out what what the environment for my recipe is?20:36
nemgti-oggot it20:36
nemgti-oghey that is cool!20:36
LetoThe2ndzeddii: nah its usually someone i finally managed to scare away!20:36
JPEWnemgti-og, Ya. Might be worth trying to figure whats different inside vs. outside the container20:36
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nemgti-ogalright. I will try to find out where's wally in this mess20:39
nemgti-ogthanks JPEW20:39
LetoThe2ndzeddii: but for reasons unknown, i fail very often in this noble task.20:50
nhartmanI'm running into a similar issue with go. Added it with DEPENDS and yet one of the install scripts complains about 'go: command not found'20:50
kergothinstall scripts?20:51
kergothstill, pretty sure you need to inherit a class for go, not just add to depends?20:51
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LetoThe2ndkergoth: "go away"20:53
LetoThe2ndkergoth: or "inherit gone"20:54
nhartmankergoth: managed to fix it by depending on 'go-native' instead of 'go'. Not sure what inheriting a class means though sorry20:55
kergothinheriting a class is bitbake recipes 101. every recipe in oe-core does so20:56
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marex-cloudkergoth: can you also bbappend a class now?21:22
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kergothno, that's never been supported. bbappend goes based on recipe filename and only recipe filename21:24
zeddiiah crap. my tested is suspended for a rm -rf. Time to call it quits for the day.21:24
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marex-cloudkergoth: aw, but what if you need to?21:36
kergothtwo to three options, you can override the bbclass by providing in your own layer and listing it before the other in BBLAYERS, or you can create a new bbclass that alters what the othre did after the fact, where possible, and ensurei t gets inherited as well hwere needed, or you can do the same in the recipes affected via bbappending them21:38
rburtonkhem: so i want to rip py2 out of core and move it to meta-python221:46
rburtonkhem: the impact on meta-oe is going to be ... fun21:47
rburtonnot sure if you want to just add meta-py2 as a dependency first, or immedately blacklist everything that uses py2 for now?21:47
bluelightningLetoThe2nd: LOL21:48
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bluelightninganyone happen to know the binutils source well? specifically how the scripts in ld/emulparams are created, and what might cause one to be missing?22:02
sveinseHas there been made any efforts in optimizing the heuristics for task execution parallelization? E.g. to maximize core utilization. I still observe a few "choke" points where most cores are idle.22:13
sveinseI do understand why these choke points occur, e.g. a base library or toolchain or similar.22:14
rburtonsveinse: no effort in saying "do this as soon as you can because it takes for ever so the sooner you start the better"22:18
rburtonwould be useful for something like gettext which is a bit of a bottleneck and takes forever to build22:19
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sveinserburton: yeah. I'm benchmarking various number of CPUs against compilation time, and it is a function of how many such bottleneck there are. If measured as efficiency in "CPU units" vs time, the optimum is lesser than the highest number of CPUs because of this.22:31
sveinseOn that note: I don't think the problem with gettext is that it takes forever, but the number of dependencies on it that makes it into a constriction.22:34
rburtonits both22:41
rburtonit takes forever to configure and its a huge number of deps22:41
rburtonif it didn't take forever to configure it wouldn't be a really bad bottleneck22:42
khemrburton: perhaps blacklist22:47
khemworld builds will be smaller, so I have incentive22:47
RPFWIW I've started a wiki page to try and collect a bit more info about who and where YP is being used:
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RPAnyone feel free to add things they know about, I've started with a really basic set of easy things like the members list22:58
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tgamblinHmm, I'm getting a troublesome do_package_qa error when trying to build some meta-sdr stuff23:01
tgamblinERROR: uhd-3.15.LTS-r0 do_package_qa: QA Issue: /usr/bin/uhd_images_downloader contained in package uhd requires /mnt/DATA_SSD/yocto/build/tmp-glibc/work/core2-64-oe-linux/uhd/3.15.LTS-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/usr/bin/python3-native/python3, but no providers found in RDEPENDS_uhd? [file-rdeps]23:01
tgamblinAnyone know how something could think it needs a native build of an executable like that?23:01
RPtgamblin: some script has it as the path at the top of the file?23:02
RPtgamblin: have a look at the top of /usr/bin/uhd_images_downloader23:02
tgamblinRP: yeah. I tried correcting that with some sed magic in do_install_append, but after pointing it to /usr/bin/python3, it reports the same issue, even though python3 is in the RDEPENDS23:02
RPtgamblin: I'm guessing your magic isn't working23:03
tgamblinThis is the result: ERROR: uhd-3.15.LTS-r0 do_package_qa: QA Issue: /usr/bin/uhd_images_downloader contained in package uhd requires /usr/bin/python3, but no providers found in RDEPENDS_uhd? [file-rdeps]23:03
RPwas it the same or a different file the second time?23:03
rburtontgamblin: do you actually rdepend on python3-core23:04
RPok, that error is different23:04
rburtonpython3 is an empty package, and that check doesn't follow dependency chains iirc23:04
tgamblinrburton: ah, let me try core...23:04
* tgamblin pats his poor 2700X on the case as it chugs along with the build...23:06
tgamblinsuccess! Thanks rburton and RP23:07
RPtgamblin: you want to point out to management how much more efficient a decent machine would make you ;-)23:07
tgamblinRP: Oh, we have lots at work. I'm just separating hobby contributions out onto my former gaming PC :)23:08
RPtgamblin: fair enough, I was a little surprised23:09
sveinseRP: Let me check with my management if our company and product can be listed. In the field of the Medical industry (yet not clinical use).23:09
RPsveinse: thanks. I know this can be tricky but it is useful to show people using the project!23:10
sveinseRP: I agree. But yeah, getting understanding to support the community cannot be taken for granted unfortunately23:11
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sveinseOh, is WSL Yocto based?23:13
RPsveinse: built using it, yes23:13
RPsveinse: see how interesting this stuff can be :)23:14
sveinseActually this can be used both ways. I don't know how often I have to defend the seeming strangeness of Yocto (build ALL of the tool chain, required copious amount of disk and cpu), and actually show that this is relevant, not an oddity.23:15
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RPsveinse: it does have a number of benefits :)23:19
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