Thursday, 2021-08-12

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LetoThe2ndyo dudX06:50
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kranzoCan someone point me to the manual or files, where i can inspect what these features actually do?08:42
kranzo`POKY_DEFAULT_DISTRO_FEATURES = "largefile opengl ptest multiarch wayland vulkan"08:42
kranzoactually i can guess a lot but largefile kinda strange for me08:43
LetoThe2ndkranzo: its very well possible that largefile is deprecated, respectively a leftover. are there any references/checks to it?08:45
kranzofound a patch from 2011, seems correlated with busybox's largefilesupport (not sure what this is) but i can google for it now, i was just unsure why its not covered in the manual :)08:48
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rburtonlargefile is pretty historical09:04
kranzoi just dropped it for now09:05
rburtonRP: was the only failure caused by my patch in the selftests?09:19
rburtonah you fixed it already, cool. thanks09:31
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rburtonRP: well is annoying10:52
kranzois there a proper way of recovering from an pseudoerror without cleansstate?11:00
rburtonrm tmp is a lot easer :)11:04
rburtondepends what the pseudo error is of course11:04
kranzoits a path mismatch, cleansstate for the recipe and rebuilding is resolving it so im not sure how to remove tmp only for the specific recipe11:05
rburtonjust wipe all of tmp, often faster than iterating a large sstate11:07
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tlwoernerkranzo: there was a time where if you wanted to work with a single file that was more than 2GB in size, your kernel, c library, and user-space had to have "largefile" support enabled11:49
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TartarusHmm, is it me or does seem like it got cut off mid explanation?13:55
Tartarus"Here's what that first line expands to".  Next section13:55
TartarusI was hoping for a few more details like in to explain what you put in an append/why13:56
* Tartarus passes both pages along to his customer for now13:56
qschulzTartarus: could you please give us the exact text and the page where it can be found because I couldn't find it using the string you sent14:01
TartarusAh sorry, I was summarizing14:01
TartarusThe last line of that section is "Using the immediate expansion assignment operator := is important because of the reference to THISDIR. The trailing colon character is important as it ensures that items in the list remain colon-separated."14:01
TartarusNow, looking at the layer, it's because the pi layer is just overriding a single file there with it's own14:02
TartarusWhich would be good to exlpain, in the docs, that is what it's doing.14:03
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TartarusA sentence about "Now the `machconfig` file found in meta-raspberrypi will be used instead of the one in the core layer." would finish the explanation.14:05
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vmesonhalstead: anyone, is it just me or is the site having clock problems: Firefox detected an issue and did not continue to The website is either misconfigured or your computer clock is set to the wrong time.14:07
vmesonah: -> The certificate for expired on 2021-08-12.14:07
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paulgvmeson, do you have TZ set to New Zealand?   It doesn't complain at me.14:08
paulgIt is supposed to be set to where you are, not where you want to be.   :-P14:10
Tartaruspaulg: I see someone else internally is noting the cert problem, and they're in EU14:10
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Tartaruslofc it's also mad here, in the east coast us :)14:11
qschulzTartarus: please send a patch, this addition makes sense to me :)14:12
Tartarusqschulz: Sure, point me at the doc repo :)14:12
TartarusOr is that still git:// ?14:12
TartarusOnly been 4 years since my last pull, ok, moment14:13
qschulzhehehe :)14:13
qschulzmuch changed since then14:13
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qschulzwe're using restructedText now :)14:13
TartarusBefore or after the note section14:14
vmesonpaulg: no and it works now after failure at least twice earlier.14:15
vmesonThis winter, it would be nice to set my TZ to NZ!14:15
qschulzTartarus: I'd personally have it after, let's see what other will say on the ML :)14:15
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d0kuI've started using extensible SDK (on gatesgarth) and wonder if the host packages I need to install can be installed "in runtime" or do they have to be prebuilt into SDK installer?14:32
d0kuAlso in this case should I still use `nativesdk-` or `-native` is also fine?14:32
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Tartarus... well, at least one can pip install pipenv :)14:42
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Tartarusqschulz: OK, It'll be a little bit before I post since I'm gonna go fix what I complained about being missing too, which means a bit more of a re-org to this section.14:50
qschulzTartarus: :) Don't hesitate to make multiple commits if the changes are logically different :)14:51
TartarusOh yes14:51
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vmesonmichaelo: for release status in and elsewhere, rather than EOL, some might want to say: Community/OS Vendors15:16
vmesonmichaelo:  I added a note to the wiki.15:20
qschulzvmeson: IIRC, we used to specify when it's community maintained15:20
qschulzso probably no-one is actively maintaining any on the official git repo15:21
vmesonqschulz: yeah, I remember that. I can update my note if you like.15:21
vmesonmy angle was clearly to point out that OSVs are happy to do longer term support! ;-)15:22
vmesonto save people the time, I have: EOL means some community support as well as OS Vendor support for some releases.15:23
qschulz"community support" is a bit amibuguous. We technically do support here on IRC or sometimes by mail, but there won't be any patch if the branch is EOL15:24
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qschulzas opposed to "real" community support of a release, where the branch continues to live with some backports and fixes, without any dot release15:25
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vmesonqschulz: updated to say: EOL means some community support on email lists but no commit updates in the repos. There is also OS Vendor support for some Yocto EOL releases.15:39
halsteadvmeson: I've forced the cert to reload on layers so the expiration is fixed. I also checked for clockskew. It was off by 0.002685 seconds which shouldn't have caused trouble.15:40
paulg<tinfoil_hat>must be those negative leap seconds...</tinfoil_hat>15:41
halsteadMust be. I'll figure out why the cert isn't reloading automatically next week. I'm on vacation today.15:42
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rburtonah joy, looks like buildhistory is broken with the new overrides16:22
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rburtonhm no maybe its been broken a while :)16:48
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* rburton provisionally blames fray 16:54
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tp43_anyone using yocto for sierra wireless hardware or legato dev platform in here?17:47
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smurrayJPEW: were you planning to submit your bitbake change wrt moving asyncio loop creation into the child processes?  or should I pick it up for the PR server patchset?18:43
JPEWsmurray: This one: ?18:47
smurrayJPEW: yep18:47
JPEWsmurray: Go ahead and pick it up18:48
tp43_What hardware is cheapest to try out yocto?18:48
JPEWtp43_: qemu or raspberry pi?18:48
smurrayJPEW: okay.  It needs one little 1-liner fix, I posted a diff last week that I suspect you missed18:49
JPEWsmurray: Ah probably18:49
tp43_JPEW, thx18:49
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tp43_Nothing cheaper than raspberry. Although it is affordable enough.18:49
smurrayJPEW: just one missed s/loop/self.loop/ in a Python version conditional18:50
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cocoJoeDoes the bier brand matter when Yocto is working?19:08
LetoThe2ndbeer always matters.19:09
cocoJoebut does it have to be German beer?19:10
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LetoThe2ndi don't think so.19:27
LetoThe2ndi missed the conversation beginning, how did we get here?19:27
cocoJoeI am just watching your live coding on YT :-D19:31
LetoThe2ndhehe yeah, that might have drinking-inducing effects.19:32
LetoThe2ndshameless plug:
cocoJoeI have it open already :-D19:34
manuel_Hi all! When doing runqemu without `nographic`, I get the following error: Failed to run qemu: Could not initialize SDL(x11 not available)19:36
manuel_Didn't find a solution yet. I'm all ears if someone has come across this.19:37
LetoThe2ndmanuel_: in which kind of environment?19:37
LetoThe2ndcocoJoe: very good!19:37
manuel_On the build machine, x86_6419:38
manuel_Build is not dockerized19:38
cocoJoewhat about ssh or tmux?19:38
manuel_cocoJoe? Was that directed at me?19:39
cocoJoemanuel_yea sorry19:39
smurraymanuel_: if you're logging into a machine and don't have remote X11 set up, you'll get that19:39
LetoThe2ndmanuel_: well, two obvious things to check: screen/tmux/ssh, obviously, and libsdl1.2 being installed and working19:40
smurraymanuel_: these days I use the VNC support instead, that's activated by passing publicvnc to runqemu19:40
manuel_I assumed when I do runqemu without 'nographic' it will just open an X11 window with the output?19:41
LetoThe2ndsmurray: i was just about to suggest vnc, +1 for the perfect hint!19:41
manuel_I think thats what qemu did when I ran it manually years ago with my handmade image (no yocto, just debootstrap and loopback devices)19:41
smurraymanuel_: if you're doing it on a local machine with X11, yes.  If you're sshing into a machine and running runqemu, then you'll need to get remote X displayt working19:41
cocoJoemanuel_ what does "echo $DISPLAY" print?19:42
manuel_smurray: I'm on a local machine with X11.19:42
smurraymanuel_: as cocoJoe suggested, check what DISPLAY is set to19:42
manuel_cocoJoe: I think you're onto something. In that kas-created shell where I do runqemu, echo $DISPLAY returns just a newline. On the host it's ":0", which is the right thing I assume19:43
smurraymanuel_: next step would be try running another X app (e.g. xeyes) from your build environment to make sure anything will come up19:43
manuel_kas ( kinda creates a temporary environment in which your build runs19:44
LetoThe2ndmanuel_: kas usually wants to (and also does) put you into a docker19:45
manuel_cocoJoe: It works now. All I had to do was a "export DISPLAY=:0" inside the kas shell19:46
LetoThe2ndhm, so it seems to open a clean sub shell19:46
manuel_LetoThe2nd: I'm currently only using the kas pip3 package, not the docker container19:47
cocoJoemanuel_ was just about to suggest that :-D19:47
manuel_LetoThe2nd: Yepp I think you have to allow that var to go through in kas .yml file19:47
LetoThe2ndmanuel_: sounds sensible19:49
manuel_cocoJoe: That was the logical next step :) Your guess was right. Thanks19:49
manuel_Next step: Get X11 to work on my Raspberry Pi 4. I'm building my thing for both machines.19:50
cocoJoemanuel_ you are welcome :-D19:50
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manuel_LetoThe2nd: Getting kvm running inside kas-docker-container is a bit tricky19:52
LetoThe2ndmanuel_: yeah. but i am so old that my brain consequently interprets kvm as "keyboard-video-mouse"19:53
cocoJoemanuel_ if you can make kas pass in the --privileged flag it should be able to access KVM19:56
cocoJoebut if you are emulating ARM it will not work19:56
manuel_cocoJoe: Yeah, I assumed but didn't try out. Thanks to know that works. Will need to find a way around --privileged, though.19:59
cocoJoemanuel_ I normally make a VM in libvirt and use the output from yocto as disk image, but it can be a bit more tedious, but it works over ssh20:01
manuel_Ok that's tricky. I'm on my Raspi know. Something is starting a process "xinit /etc/X11/X11session -- /usr/bin/Xorg :0 -br -pn" every few seconds20:01
manuel_That process lives for a few seconds only, so I can't check it's environment, but I assume it's lacking the DISPLAY=:020:01
manuel_Who is starting that process?20:01
manuel_It has forked off, so in htop shows up as child of pid 120:02
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manuel_Hmm, the Xorg log tells me "Failed to load module "fbdev""20:13
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marexmanuel_: do you actually care about the video output from the runqemu or can it be sent e.g. to Xvfb and ignored ?20:28
manuel_marex: I do actually care20:29
marexok, then VNC it is20:30
manuel_marex: No need, when I runqemu without "nographic" now, it just pops up a windows. That's perfect.20:31
manuel_Still a bit slow, though, altough runqemu runs with kvm.20:31
tp43_I just spent 4hrs reading yocto docs. I started from the top and now I am at 3.4 Git Workflows and the Yocto Project. I regret to say, I did not learn anything more than I got from the quick start guide.20:42
tp43_If anyone wouldn't mind mentioning the hardware they are working on please. And if you have a link so I do not have to google would be bonus. Regards.20:44
manuel_tp43_: I'm working on a Raspberry Pi 4. How is that of interest to you?20:47
tp43_manuel_, I am thinking of what to buy. What are advantages to using Yocto over the images at the R pi website?20:48
manuel_That you have a tailormade linux system? That's what Yocto is all about I guess.20:49
tp43_manuel_, true20:50
paulgtp43_, it depends what you are trying to do.  Are you looking for a cheap platform just to learn Yocto on, or do you have a specific embedded project in mind, or .... ?20:50
tp43_manuel_, no missing drivers?20:50
tp43_paulg, cheap to learn20:50
paulgIf you can share a bit more on what your overall goal is, people might be able to give more guided help.20:50
tp43_paulg, learn to use Yocto20:50
marexqemu ?20:50
manuel_tp43: The meta-raspberrypi layer comes with some example images I think, so it should get you started very qicklly20:51
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tp43_marex, hmm, I did quick build. I can run qemu. So just play around with it, run commands, try to do stuff eh?20:51
marexwell, yes, it costs nothing, the drivers are all there in the kernel ... so ... why not20:52
tp43_marex, yes of course.20:52
marexalso, shipping time is the speed of your internet connectivity20:52
marexor are you looking for something tangible (board) ?20:53
tp43_marex I mean if I got out and buy one, the only difference is going to be that I had to flash it or otherwise install the image. And then ssh in. Then back to the same point as with qemu.20:53
tp43_marex, well it would be a real world experience then.20:54
marextp43_: what do you hope to learn with that ? the part where every hardware has unique problems ? :)20:55
paulgyes, with r-pi, you'd be putting stuff (broadcomm firmware, u-boot etc) on an u-SD card and learing r-pi board specifics, but if you have no interest in the hardware specifics, then that doesn't help you much.20:56
paulgif you are just looking to change packages in a root filesystem image and change userspace contents etc - then qemu will do just fine and you won't be wasting time on board specifics you don't really care about.20:57
tp43_paulg, I am interested in the hardware specifics. But I guess I should start with learning just yocto for now and wait to get the hardware work.20:57
marexbut if you buy e.g. a board which is poorly supported and suffer with it a long time to get it properly supported, it could be a good learning experience20:57
tp43_I have a wp76xx board from sierra wireless. But I can not do anything with it. But I see pi is there in the index. I'm not sure if it is in the reviewed index. But it might help me do some things, so then when I got back to the more challenging situation with sierrawireless, the easier parts won't be a problem.20:59
paulgthere is also nothing stopping you from installing yocto on that 10 year old PC in your cousin Bob's basement that he never threw out yet (using generic-x86/common-pc target)20:59
tp43_marex, I am thinking of buying r pi 4 cortex(arm v8). I have a wp76xx arm v420:59
tp43_paulg, that would be a better start. you are correct. I can make a bootable usb/cd?21:00
marexthat armv4 might be easier to get started with -- simpler hardware which one can actually comprehend21:00
marexstart with basic stuff, add complexity once you understand the basics21:01
tp43_yeah but I do not see any sierrawireless or legato in the index. I have to go to the vendor and I am not sure how to do. It is an industry device. Where as r pi is a hobby device with many blogs and what not for tutorials. So I thought R Pi would be easier.21:02
tp43_Although docs say going to the vendor is the best route.21:02
marextp43_: so, roll your own layer for that board ?21:03
tp43_They do compilicated stuff, the instruction at for wp76xx. Like move to opt, take ownership, give back ownership. I mean no big deal, but so many things like that that do not make sense to me as of yet.21:03
marexpocketbeagle might also be a good platform, or some of the beagleboards21:04
tp43_marex. ok. cool yeah, I will start with learning how to roll out my own layer. Then for that board. But later, when I try to work on the wp76xx. I need to use the layers provided; all the drivers provided by the vendor.21:04
marexit is old and reasonably simple hardware21:04
marextp43_: you could try and learn kernel work while at it21:04
tp43_marex, like what. what is kernel work. I saw one video. Hello world linux driver that just prints to kernel log.21:05
tp43_manuel_, Also, I want to know all the options. Like if I learn Yocto, all the various hardware options that open up to me. There is R Pi and Beagle bone. Then sierra wireless.21:07
tp43_thx guys for the advice21:22
JPEWHmm, apparently circular RDEPENDS are an allowed thing?21:29
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marexnot xilinx if possible21:48
marexthat has extra complications due to the vivado/vitis21:48
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tp43_marex, thx22:23
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tlwoernertp43_: if you visit, select your branch (e.g. master, dunfell) then, on the right, click "Filter layers" and only choose "Machine (BSP)" you'll get a list of BSP layers that will give you an idea of what devices are supported22:31
tlwoernernote, however, that the quality can vary, so just because you find something there, doesn't mean it'll be painless to use22:32
tlwoernertake note of the last commit to a given layer to get an idea of which ones are more currently supported22:32
tlwoerneralso, if you've selected a board, before buying, try doing a build for that MACHINE to see how well it goes :-D22:33
tp43_tlwoerner, I can do bitbake core-image-minimal for the qemuxarm and x86, both 64 bit versions np. But you mean, not the qemu version, but actual hardware version right?22:35
tp43_I am thinking of buy R PI 4 which is arm v8 cortex22:36
tlwoernertp43_: yes, i take it you're interested in trying yocto out on different physical devices (e.g. rpi etc) so i recommend doing a build before you buy, just to make sure the layer is usable :-)22:36
tlwoerneroh yea, the rpi4 will work fine22:36
tp43_They have it at local electronics shop here in my town for $80. But then I guess I have to get the usb to uart at 3.3v converter cable too.22:37
tlwoerneryou can choose between 32-bit or 64-bit22:37
tlwoerneryes, console cables are good. i've got a stack of them22:37
tlwoerner(most of us probably do)22:37
tp43_tlwoerner, why/how do you have so many/22:37
tp43_Maybe I do too then.22:38
tp43_I can just cut any old usb cable? and solder those single pin connectors?22:38
tp43_This guy says I gotta buy that cable for $2522:40
tp43_Just looks like a regular usb cable with those single pin connectors.22:40
tlwoernerwhatever works for you :-)22:41
tp43_tlwoerner, so it is just a usb cable right? There is nothing special in there to doing conversion or setting voltages22:44
JPEWtp43_: it's not a regular USB cable. There is a usb-uart adaptor chip in the plug22:45
tp43_JPEW, thx22:45
tp43_JPEW, do you know where else to buy them, like in person instead of waiting for the mail?22:46
JPEWAny USB UART adaptor that can operate at 3.3v should work22:46
JPEWI always buy mine on Amazon22:46
tp43_JPEW I never heard of UART before recent22:46
JPEWAh. It's pretty common in embedded... It's simple enough that it almost always works so it's good for debugging22:47
tp43_JPEW had advantage over ssh/telnet of allowing you to read boot and kernel log22:49
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JPEWCorrect. You can init it really early in the boot (bootloader or earlier even)22:50
tlwoerneroh right, yea there's the converter. like i said, most of us have a bunch of them. console cables are pretty common in embedded. it's either that, or blinking an LED (lol)22:51
JPEWThere comes a point in most of my microcontroller projects where I seriously consider writing a printf() that does Morse code on an LED...22:57
tp43_JPEW lol23:00
moto-timoJPEW: thank you for the packagedata patch, you beat me to it23:01
JPEWmoto-timo: was it actually breaking something?23:02
moto-timoRP: not sure about FILER*LIST needing override change in patch I just sent, but FILERPROVIDES and FILERDEPENDS are definitely needed or packagedata isn’t populated23:02
moto-timoJPEW: my Perl-rodeos WIP23:03
moto-timoErrr. perl-rdeps23:03
JPEWmoto-timo: rodeo seems appropriate23:15
moto-timoJPEW: very. Lots of loops and I think there is a clown in a barrel23:16
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tp43_how do I do $runqemu -nographic qemux86-64, you know what I mean, cause that there what I entered did not work.23:26
tp43_cause the gui is for touch and the mouse dissapears in the window.23:26
tp43_Nevermind, I got it. instead you just do $qemu qemux86-64 core-image-minial23:31
tp43_or core-image-sato, but it boots sato by default23:32
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