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| *** mckoan|away is now known as mckoan | 07:40 | |
| mckoan | good morning | 07:40 |
|---|---|---|
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| jonmason | OE DVM starting in 5min | 11:57 |
| jonmason | https://zoom.us/j/99151508871 | 11:57 |
| hmw[m] | what is oe dvm ? | 11:58 |
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| rburton | developer virtual meeting | 12:00 |
| rburton | hmw[m]: https://www.openembedded.org/OEDVM_Nov_2021 | 12:00 |
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| behanw | Official backchannel! | 12:08 |
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| Crofton | Minutes: https://st1.zoom.us/web_client/rnqzmq/html/externalLinkPage.html?ref=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T7pqHvNZuwDGOPXIgRR1_1-ECgDcw0xNin2IgahHpRk/edit?usp=sharing | 12:29 |
| dl9pf | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T7pqHvNZuwDGOPXIgRR1_1-ECgDcw0xNin2IgahHpRk/edit?usp=sharing | 12:31 |
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| rburton | zoom really needs a 'list of everyone who joined' button as keeping that participant list correct will be painful | 12:36 |
| Crofton | People should add themselves to the attendee list | 12:40 |
| fray | yup, was just going to say that. | 12:40 |
| Crofton | If you are having trouble getting a word in, use reaction -> raise hand so we notice | 12:43 |
| Crofton | reactions is along the bottom of the meeting | 12:44 |
| Crofton | er zoom window | 12:44 |
| fray | yup.. | 12:44 |
| tlwoerner | doing a virtual meeting via a phone bridge was very hard to hear people. people who were far from the mic were impossible to hear | 12:46 |
| tlwoerner | and if you did hear them, it was often hard to figure out who was speaking | 12:46 |
| tlwoerner | with zoom you hear everyone well, and you can read who is speaking | 12:46 |
| tlwoerner | (zoom, etc) | 12:46 |
| JPEW | IMHO: virtual vs. in-person is all about scope: in-person is fine if what you are discussing doesn't need to reach everyone. If you have topics that are important for everyone, do them in the virtual meeting | 13:01 |
| tlwoerner | true. in-person vs virtual have pros and cons for each | 13:02 |
| fray | I find in-person to be easier to make decisions (complex decisions that become contentious).. but as an org, we've had far fewer of them at this point then 10+ years ago | 13:02 |
| JPEW | fray: Sure, and it's obviously fine to discuss to stuff in person; but if you want everyones input (even if it's harder) virtual is better for that. | 13:03 |
| tlwoerner | oops, i should have said: "doing a *hybrid* meeting via phone bridge..." | 13:10 |
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| jonmason | wasn't there a legal requirement for SBOM in the UK as well? | 13:11 |
| vmeson | Does SBOM have a 'may contain" label? ;-) | 13:12 |
| Crofton | https://st1.zoom.us/web_client/rnqzmq/html/externalLinkPage.html?ref=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T7pqHvNZuwDGOPXIgRR1_1-ECgDcw0xNin2IgahHpRk/edit?usp=sharing | 13:12 |
| Crofton | bah wrong link | 13:12 |
| behanw | vmeson: May contain CVEs | 13:12 |
| Crofton | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T7pqHvNZuwDGOPXIgRR1_1-ECgDcw0xNin2IgahHpRk/edit?usp=sharing | 13:12 |
| vmeson | behanw: It's a C/C++ world, it's almost a certainty that it contains CVEs! | 13:13 |
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| behanw | Meh. The language doesn't matter. There are always bugs | 13:14 |
| behanw | Managed languages have fewer memory safety issues, but they have other issues. | 13:15 |
| RP | https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto-announce/message/229 | 13:15 |
| RP | "* New create-spdx class for creating SPDX SBoM documents" | 13:15 |
| jonmason | use Rust, because it's totally impossible to screw things up there ;-) | 13:15 |
| behanw | LOL | 13:15 |
| RP | fray: ^^ | 13:15 |
| behanw | jonmason: Lower probability. | 13:16 |
| jonmason | behanw: you did 15min breaks? | 13:16 |
| vmeson | heh. yeah, much lower probability for the 2/3 of CVEs which are memory related. | 13:16 |
| behanw | We did 15 for the beginner class. 10min for the talks | 13:16 |
| behanw | 15 is reasonable for a long session like this | 13:17 |
| Crofton | I am adding background to the minutes also | 13:17 |
| jonmason | ok, 9-9:10AM EDT | 13:17 |
| behanw | 15 mins every 2h is usually a good idea. | 13:17 |
| Crofton | People may need to put on pants ...... | 13:17 |
| jonmason | I think discussion won't stop anyway ;-) | 13:17 |
| behanw | You can mute the channel as a host | 13:17 |
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| behanw | But I would suggest a 10-15 timer on the screen share during the break | 13:18 |
| behanw | google "15 min timer" and it will show a timer. | 13:18 |
| jonmason | behanw: I was jokingly thinking of the same thing | 13:18 |
| Crofton | How did you do that? | 13:18 |
| behanw | Not a joke. | 13:18 |
| jonmason | like a teacher making all the childen take a nap | 13:18 |
| behanw | Forced quiet time. ;) | 13:18 |
| behanw | We're all children. | 13:18 |
| behanw | Actuall... Worse than that: we're all tired grumpy children. | 13:19 |
| behanw | *Actually | 13:19 |
| * behanw looks for his juice box | 13:19 | |
| jonmason | behanw: I was going to make a juice box joke | 13:20 |
| jonmason | us tired think the same | 13:20 |
| behanw | Brain in low-power mode. | 13:21 |
| behanw | I'm happy to help if you want to make me a co-host | 13:23 |
| jonmason | RP: is anyone working on getting checkpatch working? | 13:33 |
| vmeson | jonmason: [16:33] <halstead> RP: Just had a meeting about patchwork and we're almost there. Setting up the patch parsing system now. Then we can take a look at what it will take to get patchtest working. | 13:33 |
| vmeson | from yesterday | 13:34 |
| vmeson | oh, checkpatch, I don't know... | 13:34 |
| jonmason | its early :) | 13:34 |
| vmeson | I just came back to the meeting so I may have missed some context... | 13:34 |
| vmeson | Then you have to figure out the license terms of the SPDX data and you get stuck in an infinite loop. ;-) | 13:36 |
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| vmeson | Since WR doesn't have a product based on dunfell, it doesn't get much (any ?) of my/our attention. | 13:44 |
| fray | Xilinx doesn't as well | 13:44 |
| fray | I care about master.. and usually the fall releases | 13:45 |
| jonmason | am I the only one that hears "mix-ins" and thinks of ice cream? | 13:46 |
| behanw | Break in 13 mins. Move along | 13:47 |
| behanw | jonmason: Worth cutting this off at the break I'm guessing. | 13:48 |
| jonmason | yes | 13:48 |
| jonmason | there are lots of unrelated things landing | 13:48 |
| jonmason | we could have a whole session on dunfell backports | 13:48 |
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| Crofton | If you are attending OEDVM, make sure you are listed as an attendee: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T7pqHvNZuwDGOPXIgRR1_1-ECgDcw0xNin2IgahHpRk/edit?usp=sharing | 13:53 |
| behanw | T-5 | 13:54 |
| Crofton | Break coming up! | 13:54 |
| vmeson | FYI, I'll be away from ~9:20 to ~10:20 so no talking about rust or creating a meta-physics layer while I'm away. | 13:55 |
| Crofton | thanks, I will make sure this doesn't happen | 13:55 |
| Crofton | you will need to explain meta-physics | 13:56 |
| jonmason | Do we need to extended time or cut off in 3 mins? | 13:57 |
| vmeson | hard to know if you need a response but meta-physics is just a silly idea for an amusing (to me) layer name for a layer that contains physics-related software. | 13:58 |
| vmeson | OED says: metaphysics: abstract theory with no basis in reality. | 14:00 |
| Crofton | :) | 14:00 |
| Crofton | Do we need a "Shaemelss self promotion" topic | 14:01 |
| shoragan | perhaps run the topics which have moderators listed first? | 14:03 |
| moto-timo | i'm fine with the order in the google doc | 14:03 |
| * vmeson would like to talk about: Modern languages (e.g. go AND RUST) | 14:03 | |
| paulbarker | I'm interested in discussion of newer languages & package managers - go, rust, npm, etc. I can moderate/introduce that without slides | 14:03 |
| dl9pf | I'd say topic with moderators as @shoragan | 14:03 |
| dl9pf | said, then pick from the rest of the list | 14:03 |
| moto-timo | +1 for new languages, but it will need to be time boxed | 14:04 |
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| paulbarker | I'll add myself as moderator of that topic in a minute | 14:04 |
| dl9pf | @paulbarker then add yourself to the wiki | 14:04 |
| paulbarker | And will shepherd it back if it goes down a rabbithole! | 14:04 |
| jonmason | JosefHolzmayrThe: We turned off video because some people were having bandwith issues | 14:05 |
| paulbarker | Added my name to the wiki | 14:08 |
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| kroon | Is it possible to attend remotely ? | 14:12 |
| hmw[m] | https://zoom.us/j/99151508871 | 14:13 |
| jonmason | kroon: its 100% remote. zoom link above | 14:13 |
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| dl9pf | OEVDM running now: https://zoom.us/j/99151508871 | 14:16 |
| dl9pf | Meeting Minutes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T7pqHvNZuwDGOPXIgRR1_1-ECgDcw0xNin2IgahHpRk/edit?usp=sharing | 14:16 |
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| JaMa | zeddii: around? | 14:19 |
| Crofton | vmeson: what TZ? | 14:21 |
| Crofton | jonmason: young punk | 14:22 |
| vmeson | Crofton: Eastern TZ | 14:24 |
| * vmeson heads out. | 14:24 | |
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| Crofton | https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/eB1B5KhA/PXL_20211203_144130789.jpg | 14:42 |
| fray | For most of the mappings can there be a 'mappings' file that is included by default for FOO = "${BAR}" ? I know that won't be _everything_, but it would cover a lot of things, like the whitelist/blacklist languages | 14:48 |
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| qschulz | fray: I'd see this as a transition period and you can show a warning or something about deprecation and remove it in the next release. | 14:51 |
| fray | I think the difficult ones could be PNBLACKLIST[...], as that isn't as easy to 'map'. | 14:54 |
| fray | without a chunk of python | 14:55 |
| sgw | I have to bail in 2 minutes, back later | 14:58 |
| Crofton | the cat has brought in an animal .... need to see what is up | 15:04 |
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| Crofton | I believe I ahve another live animal in the house .... | 15:14 |
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| * vmeson returns | 15:29 | |
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| JPEW | https://github.com/JPEWdev/meta-phosh | 15:41 |
| JPEW | armpit: I submitted my layer and I got "Page not Found" when I clicked the button, so I don't know if it went through | 15:48 |
| JaMa | it went | 15:50 |
| JPEW | ty | 15:51 |
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| JaMa | https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-phosh/ | 15:52 |
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| Crofton | If you are attending OEDVM, make sure you are listed as an attendee: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T7pqHvNZuwDGOPXIgRR1_1-ECgDcw0xNin2IgahHpRk/edit?usp=sharing | 16:04 |
| Crofton | and check the spelling of your name | 16:05 |
| tlwoerner | moto-timo: your mic is flipped up (away from mouth?) | 16:05 |
| moto-timo | or maybe the input volume is down again. it keeps resetting itself in zoom :/ | 16:06 |
| moto-timo | super frustrating that this used to be rock solid | 16:07 |
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| khem | alias go='TMPDIR=${GOPATH}/tmp go' 🙂 | 16:26 |
| khem | ah paulbarker it seems to have gotten better see https://github.com/golang/go/commit/efb1a7524eda6c36efdb506d0f9e8d822808593e | 16:27 |
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| armpit | JPEW: its there - http://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-phosh/ | 16:30 |
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| jonmason | JPEW: SPDX talk is next | 16:40 |
| JPEW | K | 16:42 |
| jonmason | rburton will be turning into a pumpkin very soon | 16:42 |
| rburton | hah | 16:43 |
| rburton | not very soon, jon thinks i'm a slacker | 16:43 |
| smurray | a different SPDX discussion than earlier? ;) | 16:43 |
| JPEW | Ya | 16:43 |
| jonmason | smurray: yes | 16:43 |
| rber|res | https://docs.conan.io/en/latest/integrations/cross_platform/yocto.html | 16:50 |
| shoragan | does the cargo fetch check the checksums against the Cargo.lock? | 16:51 |
| shoragan | s/fetch/fetcher/ | 16:51 |
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| jonmason | ndec: are you around to talk on "Yocto Project compatibility" | 17:02 |
| ndec | yes. | 17:03 |
| jonmason | not sure if you signed up or someone signed you up ;-) | 17:03 |
| ndec | in fact I won't be able to stay for much longer.. | 17:03 |
| jonmason | cool, then you are next | 17:03 |
| jonmason | I think this one is almost done | 17:03 |
| ndec | i signed up to help armin, then he un-signed himself ;) | 17:03 |
| jonmason | lmao | 17:03 |
| ndec | it was a trap! | 17:03 |
| Crofton | Needs doing | 17:04 |
| Crofton | and will it go into layer quality? | 17:04 |
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| paulbarker | https://reuse.software/spec/#format-of-copyright-notices | 17:13 |
| khem | shoragan: yes it does | 17:19 |
| shoragan | khem, thanks | 17:21 |
| fray | I did that a few years back, and the feedback was ignored by maintainers.. It isn't hard to do it again honestly.. | 17:32 |
| fray | you pull the list of layers, then pass that info to the bitbake-layers add and run the test | 17:33 |
| fray | the time consuming part is the processing of the results and management of the process | 17:33 |
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| jonmason | yes, dl9pf hit the same problems | 17:37 |
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| jonmason | This is what we have https://jonmason00.gitlab.io/-/meta-arm/-/jobs/1847629732/artifacts/update-report.html | 17:41 |
| jonmason | so easy, a manager can read it | 17:42 |
| jonmason | compiled on every build | 17:42 |
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| RP | jonmason: it is nice when you only have a handful of things to highlight :) | 17:56 |
| jonmason | RP: yes, but it could be extrapolated for other layers | 18:00 |
| jonmason | oe layers might be a bit much | 18:00 |
| jonmason | future note, do not put down estimate of time on the wiki. It is almost laughable to look at now | 18:03 |
| RP | jonmason: I was just laughing at that too :) | 18:03 |
| paulg | estimates only exist to keep managers happy - sometimes they can be entertaining for the rest of us by happy coincidence. | 18:07 |
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| Crofton | I mentioned collections! | 18:16 |
| paulbarker | smurray: Now look at https://github.com/murata-wireless/meta-murata-wireless/blob/imx-hardknott-cynder/add-murata-layer-script/add-murata-wireless.sh | 18:26 |
| smurray | paulbarker: ouch | 18:28 |
| Crofton | We need a wall of shame | 18:29 |
| Crofton | industry worst practices | 18:30 |
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| Crofton | https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/bbtn6Jl6/irccloudcapture2334952661739447980.jpg | 19:02 |
| armpit | I am a dog person so I am offended by that photo | 19:12 |
| * zeddii is triggered | 19:13 | |
| fray | drink more beer | 19:14 |
| armpit | must comply | 19:15 |
| jonmason | cat is sick of your BS! | 19:15 |
| fray | lol I have a call in an hour and 45 minutes.. so the one beer I had with lunch is it for now | 19:16 |
| Crofton | https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search/?alertAction=viewjobs&f_TPR=a1637448577-&keywords=yocto&savedSearchId=1723266099&searchAlertRefId=3845decc-8159-4ae1-a415-8e48ba4fab71 | 19:17 |
| Crofton | not sure if that works | 19:17 |
| fray | nope, didn't work here | 19:17 |
| Crofton | Decembers picture from my Black Metal Cats calendar | 19:18 |
| * vmeson thinks of suggesting that we call it Gnu/Yocto/Oe but decides against it. ;-) | 19:18 | |
| armpit | Crofton: is the calendar a Chip and tail? | 19:18 |
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| Crofton | https://www.lulu.com/shop/bmc/black-metal-cats-2020/calendar/product-24324970.html | 19:20 |
| Crofton | vmeson: that makes it into unhappy hour | 19:20 |
| Crofton | search linkedin for yocto jobs etc | 19:21 |
| smurray | Crofton: heh, I forgot to flip my BMC calendar to Dec, thanks ;) | 19:22 |
| Crofton | hah yeah I just did | 19:22 |
| Crofton | which led to this | 19:22 |
| vmeson | Crofton: I'll drink to that! | 19:22 |
| RP | hmm, never had my headset battery low warning before | 19:24 |
| khem | armpit: drink enough so that cat and and dog become same | 19:24 |
| JaMa | my low beer warning is blinking since the happy hour started | 19:25 |
| zeddii | I've just been lurking, and I'm burnt out. | 19:25 |
| * vmeson considers what cocktail to make.... | 19:25 | |
| khem | JaMa: recharge ! | 19:26 |
| * vmeson tried OE or buildroot circa 2004 one weekend and it took years to recover! | 19:27 | |
| RP | Crofton: I keep reading BMC as British Mountaineering Council | 19:27 |
| RP | vmeson: 2004 would be rough for OE | 19:27 |
| Crofton | RP: Nice | 19:27 |
| Crofton | Very rough | 19:27 |
| fray | lol systemd still working on 'enabling it' today.. only adds 30 MB to a 29 MB filesystem.. :P | 19:28 |
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| RP | I was thinking of the changes we made ~2006 such as more than one task at once, the concept of a bitbake UI, task dependencies instead of recipe dependencies | 19:29 |
| vmeson | it may have been early 2005, anyway, it was rough and it was meant to be for fun so I spent time making graphs instead. ;-) | 19:29 |
| fray | ..and a 59 MB filesystem is a problem when the machine only has 64 MB of ram, and it runs from ram... | 19:29 |
| * vmeson goes to make a cocktail called: SATAN'S WHISKERS -- bbiab... | 19:30 | |
| khem | fray 29MB of system management on a 1MB of apps sounds an interesting choice | 19:32 |
| fray | ya, the choice was this is insane, so we're going back to sysvinit | 19:32 |
| esben[m] | s6-rc is another option | 19:33 |
| fray | 29 MB is more or less sysvinit, base initscripts, busybox and module utilities and libc.. | 19:33 |
| khem | s6 works well until you have many daemons to manage | 19:33 |
| khem | for < 10 services its ok | 19:34 |
| esben[m] | s6-rc or just s6? | 19:34 |
| khem | We did a POC where s6 came almost at par with systemd in terms of runtime memoey | 19:34 |
| fray | ya I never got far enough to check runtime memory usage.. disk space requirements was enought o say 'no' | 19:35 |
| khem | but this is a complex system initialization | 19:35 |
| esben[m] | I use it in real systems, with many services. I dont have Amy issues with it. | 19:35 |
| khem | there are no issues with it. I was just mentioning use it where it is best | 19:36 |
| khem | fray: have you thought of using busybox-init ? | 19:38 |
| esben[m] | Sure. And i have gone beyond PoC, and find it very good, also with many services. | 19:38 |
| fray | ya, but then it's "yet another" init to support.. | 19:38 |
| fray | I can justify supporting two sysvinit for constraind systems and systemd.. but adding busybox means a third | 19:39 |
| fray | (I did that at Wind River, but I'm not willing to take that on here) | 19:39 |
| khem | yeah perhaps a good compromize | 19:44 |
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