| aboseley | Can I use yocto recipes to build application software for my desktop linux distro, in addition to my embedded distro? | 00:06 |
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| Kakadu | Hey, folks | 07:59 |
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| Kakadu | I have some noobish kernel compilation issues. Who want to get some Stackoverflow points? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/36019223/arm-poky-linux-gnueabi-ld-bfd-no-machine-record-defined-when-compiling-new-kern | 08:00 |
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| LetoThe2nd | Kakadu: in short: the old kernelconfig isnt' compatible. you're forwarding over about 45 version,s you knwo? | 08:06 |
| Kakadu | Yeah, I agree that there were a lot of changes | 08:07 |
| LetoThe2nd | Kakadu: my advice would be, manually make the kernel compile with your toolchain again, using oldconfig and then iterating. | 08:07 |
| LetoThe2nd | Kakadu: the error message generally points into the arm machine config, which has changed massively during the 3.0-3.10 era (board files towards dt) | 08:08 |
| LetoThe2nd | so you're in for a real lot of work anyways. | 08:08 |
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| Kakadu | > manually make the kernel compile with your toolchain again, using oldconfig and then iterating. | 08:09 |
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| Kakadu | Can you rephrase? | 08:09 |
| Kakadu | Do you mean that I need to try to compiler kernel with old 2.6.39 config without bitbake and stuff? | 08:09 |
| LetoThe2nd | Kakadu: explanation prior to DT, any board had an individual, unique number to identify it, which the bootloader passed to the kernel. then, based on that number, the kernel selected the appropriate board config file. this is strongly discouraged now, and probably also doesn't work anymore properly. | 08:09 |
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| LetoThe2nd | Kakadu: so if you want to do things right, you need not only to come up with a new kernel, but also a fitting DTB | 08:10 |
| LetoThe2nd | Kakadu: yes, basically i mean that. take your compiler, and try to manually, without bb and oe build a working configuration. then reintegrate that back | 08:11 |
| Kakadu | DTB==Device tree block? | 08:11 |
| LetoThe2nd | device tree blob | 08:11 |
| Kakadu | ah, I mean t that | 08:11 |
| Kakadu | spelling. | 08:11 |
| Kakadu | OK, thanks! | 08:11 |
| LetoThe2nd | good luck. | 08:12 |
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| nicolas_m | Hi, do you know if there is a channel dedicated to meta-raspberry ? I see that 6 days ago, the rpi3 support has been added into the master branch but the generated image failed to start on a rpi3 (stucked on the screen displaying 3 raspberrys). | 09:52 |
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| zero_note | hi folks, on the same build machine (ubuntu 14.04.4, gcc 4.8.4) I've cloned 2 git repos: one for my yocto project and the latter is the u-boot repo, so I bitbake the sdk, install it and source it, but I can't compile u-boot due to an error related to a missing tool | 12:03 |
| zero_note | arm-poky-linux-gnueabi-ld: cannot find -lgcc | 12:03 |
| zero_note | but I can't understand why the same u-boot source code compile with no problems using yocto recipes, while when I try to compile "manually" u-boot I get this error | 12:03 |
| zero_note | anyone have any clue about this? | 12:03 |
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| Anticom | zero_note: maybe it's missing in your sdk? | 12:16 |
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| Anticom | zero_note: also try installing gcc-multilib on your host | 12:18 |
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| Ulfalizer | i have a recipe that dynamically extends PACKAGES in do_package_prepend() with d.prependVar("PACKAGES", "{} ".format(pkg)) inside a loop. i tried disabling the 'build-deps' QA check for each new package by adding d.appendVar("INSANE_SKIP_{}".format(pkg), "build-deps"), but it seems to have no effect. any idea why? | 12:39 |
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| Ulfalizer | putting INSANE_SKIP_<pkg> = "build-deps" for each package at the top level works, but is no longer dynamic | 12:41 |
| Ulfalizer | maybe there could be sstate-related issues later too, but i want to figure out this step first | 12:41 |
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| Anticom | Ulfalizer: have you set http://www.yoctoproject.org/docs/latest/mega-manual/mega-manual.html#var-PACKAGES_DYNAMIC ? | 13:06 |
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| Ulfalizer | Anticom: yup, it's set | 13:16 |
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| zero_note | Anticom: my sdk is ok, I use it to compile the kernel with no problems, why are you think about gcc-multilib? | 13:22 |
| Anticom | zero_note: just read it somewhere on SO | 13:22 |
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| Anticom | sec | 13:22 |
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| Anticom | zero_note: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22157391/how-to-deal-with-linker-error-error-cannot-find-lgcc 1st comment | 13:24 |
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| zero_note | Anticom: thanks, I'll try (actually I can't apt-get install on my build-machine due to restricted permissions), next time I'll googling more deeply ;-) | 13:28 |
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| zero_note | Anticom: gcc-multilib does not seems to fix the problem, I suppose that is not a so much unexpected thing, because as I said before, the same source compile with no problem using yocto recipes | 13:54 |
| Anticom | zero_note: maybe checking, what 'bitbake -e <target> | less' yields might give you any clues on some environment stuff you're missing in your build | 13:55 |
| zero_note | Anticom: LD and LDFLAGS seem quite different in u-boot run.do_compile and in my build env | 14:07 |
| Anticom | zero_note: there you go :) | 14:08 |
| zero_note | Anticom: I expected that sourcing the sdk would give me the same env | 14:08 |
| Anticom | dunno. never used a bb populated sdk yet. I'm fairly new to yocto myself | 14:09 |
| zero_note | me too :) | 14:09 |
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| riz__ | Hello. I am new to Yocto and see great value in its use. I have read all of the documentation over and over but have a few beginner questions and I was wondering if this is the place I can maybe get some help. | 15:27 |
| rburton | it sure is | 15:28 |
| riz__ | Great! | 15:28 |
| boucman_work | riz__: yes, that's probably the place, but this is IRC so the answer might take some time to come | 15:28 |
| riz__ | Not a problem. I understand | 15:28 |
| riz__ | To begin, I am having trouble understanding the process of getting started. I am using the minnowboard and would like to get my feet wet by building a yocto image to load on the board. I have done it successfully with both core-image minimal and sato, but the process was not fully understood. I just followed documentation and it worked. Now I am trying to understand it. | 15:30 |
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| Anticom | riz__: so what steps exactly don't you understand? the concepts & terms like layers or recipes take some time to really settle. Took me like 3 weeks or so :> | 15:31 |
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| riz__ | My question is the following. Is Poky build system (located at git://git.yoctoproject.org/poky.git, poky-jethro-14.0.1.tar.bz2) going to be thwe base to every project? | 15:31 |
| rburton | no | 15:31 |
| rburton | poky is an example, and what we use for QA purposes | 15:31 |
| riz__ | This is where I get really confused. | 15:32 |
| rburton | you can use poky as a base, or just use bitbake + oe-core + meta-intel | 15:32 |
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| Anticom | poky basically is a refference distro to get you jump started | 15:32 |
| rburton | poky is just bitbake + oe-core + meta-yocto, squashed into a single repo | 15:32 |
| Anticom | if i'm not mistaken :P | 15:32 |
| Anticom | rburton: am i? | 15:33 |
| rburton | you can use it to get jump started if you wish | 15:33 |
| belen1 | riz__: using Toaster, the web UI, might help understanding the bits that come into play. Might… not guaranteed ;) | 15:33 |
| riz__ | So, you are saying that bitbake + oe-core + meta-intel is the bare minimum needed for any x86 build? | 15:33 |
| rburton | no, toaster is a UI | 15:33 |
| rburton | entirely optional | 15:33 |
| rburton | oe-core + bitbake is the core you'll always use | 15:34 |
| rburton | if you're using minnowboard you'll need meta-intel too | 15:34 |
| riz__ | yes, and meta-intel is for my specific platform | 15:34 |
| riz__ | exactly | 15:34 |
| rburton | right | 15:34 |
| riz__ | Now, what are those considered? layers? | 15:34 |
| Anticom | that's where the understanding of layers is important | 15:34 |
| Anticom | haha | 15:34 |
| riz__ | lol | 15:34 |
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| Anticom | so the layers just encapsulate certain abstraction levels | 15:34 |
| rburton | yes | 15:35 |
| Anticom | at the core there are the bsp (board support layers) layers, basically defining the hardware you're compiling for | 15:35 |
| Anticom | and then you start 'layering' functionality / abstractions on top | 15:35 |
| riz__ | Is the combination of bitbake + oe-core + meta-intel called my "build system"? | 15:35 |
| Anticom | bitbake is the build system. It parses the recipes and figures out what has to be build how and in what order | 15:36 |
| Anticom | oe-core is just a big collection of recipes that are commonly used | 15:36 |
| riz__ | Ahhh, BSP's. That is my next point of confusion. | 15:36 |
| Anticom | e.g. the recipe base-files is (more or less) just creating folders like for example /tmp in your rootfs | 15:37 |
| riz__ | I am seeing Intel-corei7-64. Does that have to be included in the build? | 15:37 |
| Anticom | dunno about x86 recipes. we're using arm :) | 15:37 |
| riz__ | referring to intel-corei7-64-4.0-jethro-2.0.tar.bz2 | 15:37 |
| riz__ | Well, ingeneral, do I have to include some sort of BSP? | 15:38 |
| Anticom | well if you're buid successfuly runs on your target then it's included somewhere on the way. You can run 'bitbake -e <target> | less' and inspect what's going on there. Also 'bitbake -u depexp -g <target>' is useful to find out what depends on what | 15:39 |
| Anticom | Moreover one of the most valuable tools to me, to figuring stuff out is http://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layers/ | 15:40 |
| riz__ | Well, now I am going to start from scratch and build a light image for my specific use | 15:40 |
| Anticom | there you can search for layers, recipes and machines | 15:40 |
| Anticom | and get useful information about things | 15:40 |
| riz__ | So, I am wondering if I need to download one of the BSPs on yocto's site | 15:40 |
| riz__ | OK. Ill check that out too | 15:40 |
| Anticom | riz__: You could start with core-image-minimal, add your own layer and start adding the stuff you need in your image | 15:41 |
| riz__ | OK. Sounds like a good plan. Is core-image-minimal included in bitbake? | 15:41 |
| riz__ | OR do I need to download the poky reference buyild system? | 15:42 |
| rburton | core-image-minimal is part of oe-core | 15:42 |
| Anticom | not entirely sure but i think it's part of poky | 15:42 |
| Anticom | ah | 15:42 |
| riz__ | OK great | 15:42 |
| rburton | therefore its in poky | 15:42 |
| riz__ | So I will start bith just building bitbake + oe-core + meta-intel and seeing if I can boot that. | 15:43 |
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| riz__ | with* | 15:43 |
| riz__ | core-image-minimal provides just a command line, correct? No GUI? | 15:44 |
| Anticom | rburton: different topic: I've removed alsa from DISTRO_FEATURES but i still see alsa-utils being build. bitbake -e <image> however didn't mention alsa-utils **anywhere**. Also i can't find it in the final running system. I suppose it's still being build but not installed in the rootfs. Any clues why it's still being build then? | 15:44 |
| rburton | Anticom: spurious dependency somewhere. if you use distro_features_check you can make it forcibly refuse to build without the alsa feature and that will give you a dependency chain | 15:45 |
| Anticom | okay thanks | 15:46 |
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| Anticom | riz__: yes | 15:47 |
| Anticom | at least i can't see any graphical stuff there | 15:47 |
| boucman_work | Anticom: bitbake -g -u depexp <your image> might help | 15:47 |
| riz__ | Now that I will not use Poky, do I just creat a folder called "MinnowboardTest" for example and include bitbake + oe-core + meta-intel in there? | 15:48 |
| Anticom | alsa-utils shows up in depexp. However i can't dig straight down from our image target. -g does populate 'regular' dot-files right? Which one do i need to render an image that contains the alsa-utils package? | 15:51 |
| Anticom | is it pn-depends.dot? | 15:52 |
| kergoth | i woudln't advise rendering them at all | 15:52 |
| kergoth | they end up so massive you can't find anything | 15:52 |
| kergoth | grep them | 15:52 |
| kergoth | or as boucman_work says, use depexp | 15:52 |
| Anticom | kergoth: directly went to grepping | 15:53 |
| boucman_work | yeah, I use them as text files, never as images :P | 15:53 |
| boucman_work | (I think there is another deps explorer called goggle, but i'm not sure. havn't tested it) | 15:54 |
| Anticom | I like pretty drawings tho ;) | 15:54 |
| Anticom | boucman_work: nah, goggle is for building | 15:54 |
| boucman_work | you'd better like heavy zooming and following very long lines :P | 15:54 |
| Anticom | "enlarge, enhance... enlarge, enhance... enlarge, enhance" :D | 15:54 |
| riz__ | Or does the file structure of my project not matter? | 15:55 |
| Anticom | riz__: somewhat | 15:55 |
| Anticom | e.g. having the layer folders being named meta-* is just a convention afaik | 15:55 |
| Anticom | however even conventions are made for sticking to them | 15:55 |
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| riz__ | so I just make a project folder and all the layers go inside that? | 15:56 |
| Anticom | riz__: we just have our layer in a repo | 15:56 |
| Anticom | dunno whether that's the usual way of doing it | 15:57 |
| riz__ | OK. | 15:57 |
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| riz__ | So where does the build folder go? | 15:57 |
| riz__ | And where does the final image end up? | 15:58 |
| Anticom | we got a little shell script, that clones oe-core and adds our layer to set up the development environment. I'm fairly new to yocto aswell and as i said i'm not really sure what the best way of doing things actually is | 15:58 |
| rburton | riz__: if you're just starting out i'd recommend poky + meta-intel tarball releases, then you save some of the hassle of setup | 15:58 |
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| Anticom | riz__: it's all in the manual ;) | 15:59 |
| Anticom | you said you've read it :p | 15:59 |
| riz__ | Yeah, I see it for poky, but i'm wondering if the structure remains the same for a custom system | 15:59 |
| Anticom | rburton: hm, strange... cat pn-depends.dot | grep -F -- '-> "alsa-utils"' is only giving me "alsa-utils" -> "alsa-utils" [style=dashed] | 15:59 |
| riz__ | Again, the manuals are quite large and remembering everything is a challeng | 15:59 |
| Anticom | or am i looking the wrong way arround? | 16:00 |
| Anticom | riz__: correct | 16:00 |
| riz__ | ok | 16:00 |
| Anticom | it's in tmp/deploy/image/[MACHINE]/ | 16:00 |
| riz__ | thanks | 16:00 |
| Anticom | yw | 16:00 |
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| Anticom | Also that's a question i've asked myself a couple of times now... Why do packages depend on themselves? | 16:03 |
| rburton | Anticom: make it break and see what happens | 16:03 |
| rburton | that's possibly it showing the relationship between binary and source? | 16:03 |
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| Anticom | I've seen that for quite some packages now | 16:03 |
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| riz__ | My next concern is I want to be able to devlop a Qt GUI to use on my board. Is this done by simply including meta-q5 as a layer as I did with meta-intel? | 16:04 |
| kergoth | afaik pn-depends is pretty naive. if it's going by packages, then packages within a recipe dep on one another, and if it's going by task, the same is true | 16:04 |
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| kergoth | should probably clean it up | 16:04 |
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| kergoth | seebs: do you happen to know of a good way to process input linewise in shell without using 'read', since it tends to mangle the spaces? | 16:08 |
| kergoth | maybe i should just use python for this script :) | 16:08 |
| Anticom | kergoth: #bash :p | 16:08 |
| kergoth | yeah, i'm pestering seebs shamelessly cause he wrote a book on portable shell scripting :P | 16:08 |
| Anticom | hahaha | 16:09 |
| Anticom | i just know about while read -r line...done < <(xyz) | 16:09 |
| Anticom | </offtopic> | 16:09 |
| kergoth | yeah, thats what i usually do too. -r fixes the line continuation stuff, but it can still swallow leading/trailing spaces and whatnot | 16:09 |
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| Anticom | kergoth: maybe ... done < <(xyz | ack my.ack) to sanatize what xyz is spitting out? | 16:10 |
| kergoth | oh, i'll just avoid being portable, use bash, and set IFS to newline with a for loop | 16:10 |
| kergoth | aside: http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/filenames-in-shell.html is quite interesting and cringe-worthy | 16:11 |
| Anticom | or rewrite your script in brainfuck to really annoy some people would be another nice alternative lol | 16:11 |
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| riz__ | I see that meta-intel layer says it is compatible with yocto version 1.5 on the website. What are they referring to when saying yocto version 1.5? | 16:13 |
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| rburton | https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Releases | 16:14 |
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| Anticom | they're probably refering to bb, http://git.openembedded.org/bitbake/refs/tags | 16:14 |
| rburton | no, not bitbake at all | 16:15 |
| Anticom | oh, never knew that | 16:15 |
| rburton | bitbake is 1.29 or something now | 16:15 |
| rburton | just for extra confusion, poky has different release numbers to oe-core | 16:15 |
| Anticom | so yocto version is just a combo of poky and bb versions? | 16:15 |
| rburton | (what with poky predating oe-core) | 16:15 |
| rburton | poky is a combination of oe-core and bitbake, and gets its own version | 16:15 |
| Anticom | version-ception | 16:16 |
| rburton | current oe-core release is 2.0 aka jethro | 16:16 |
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| rburton | 1.5 would be aka dora, and is pretty old now | 16:16 |
| rburton | (one release every six months) | 16:16 |
| Anticom | we're on jethro | 16:17 |
| * Anticom proud | 16:17 | |
| * rburton ignores that 1.9 was skipped | 16:17 | |
| Anticom | :O | 16:17 |
| Anticom | how come i never notice such things | 16:17 |
| riz__ | IF I am not using poky then what does that matter? | 16:17 |
| riz__ | I am confused | 16:17 |
| rburton | it doesn't :) | 16:17 |
| riz__ | so which meta-intel do I use? | 16:18 |
| rburton | literally nobody really cares about the poky release number | 16:18 |
| riz__ | Just the latest release? | 16:18 |
| rburton | yes | 16:18 |
| riz__ | Awesome | 16:18 |
| riz__ | What about meta-qt5? Is that all I need to develop Qt applications on yocto? | 16:19 |
| rburton | yes | 16:19 |
| riz__ | So, I then just take my Qt5 application that is developed on my host and install it in the root of the target bosrd and it should run? | 16:19 |
| rburton | http://downloads.yoctoproject.org/releases/yocto/yocto-2.0/machines/intel-corei7-64/intel-corei7-64-4.0-jethro-2.0.tar.bz2?bsp=cherry_hill_bsp_braswell should be the right bsp release for minnowboard | 16:20 |
| * rburton just uses git clones and finds it a lot easier | 16:20 | |
| riz__ | Or do I still need to include all the Qt libraries? | 16:20 |
| rburton | riz__: you'll need to include the libraries - adding a layer doesn't magically make the image contain the binaries | 16:20 |
| riz__ | Thanks. That is the one I was going to use | 16:20 |
| rburton | write a recipe for your application to build it, and then put the resulting package in your image | 16:20 |
| rburton | that will pull in the right libraries automatically | 16:21 |
| riz__ | OK. | 16:21 |
| riz__ | So where does the mata-toolchain-qt5 come into play? | 16:22 |
| rburton | ignore that | 16:22 |
| riz__ | That confused the hell out of me | 16:22 |
| riz__ | 'So then what is that? | 16:22 |
| rburton | anything that says meta-toolchain is obsolete | 16:22 |
| riz__ | ok | 16:22 |
| rburton | if you want to develop for the target on your host, then you can build a custom SDK | 16:22 |
| rburton | meta-toolchain was the precursor to that | 16:22 |
| rburton | by develop i mean build binaries and so on but without using bitbake or oe directly | 16:23 |
| riz__ | So onvce I inculude the meta-q5 layer and build yocto I should be able to use QtCreator to setup a kit to point to the required compilers and debuggers that were made from my yocto build? | 16:23 |
| riz__ | I do want to develop on my host. Then I just want to deploy it on the board with my yocto image | 16:24 |
| riz__ | I feel that is easiest | 16:24 |
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| rburton | you want to write a recipe so you can build from your sources inside bitbake | 16:28 |
| rburton | its certainly easy to do development inside an ide but you want to have a recipe too | 16:28 |
| riz__ | That is the part I dont understand. | 16:28 |
| riz__ | If I am developing in Qt Creator, how to UI build from the source inside of bitbake? | 16:28 |
| riz__ | how do I build* | 16:29 |
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| rburton | you point your recipe at the sources, wherever they are | 16:31 |
| riz__ | And if I build my GUI from QtCreator, is it still necessary to inslude meta-qt5 in by yocto build? | 16:31 |
| Anticom | riz__: to put it into a simple perspective: Image consists of layers. Layers contain recipes. A recipe usually pulls from a source repository and builds/provides 1 or more packages that then get installed to your image when you add them to IMAGE_INSTALL of your image | 16:31 |
| rburton | if you're doing serious development then you might find it easier to start by adding all the qt libraries to your image, and then using qtcreator to build stuff and copy it over. | 16:31 |
| Anticom | or did i get something fataly wrong there ross? | 16:31 |
| rburton | when you're a bit more stable you can have a recipe that pulls from your git repo or whatever and builds it to make proper packages | 16:32 |
| riz__ | I see | 16:32 |
| riz__ | For some reason I assumed meta-qt5 included the libraries | 16:32 |
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| riz__ | And that was its purpose | 16:33 |
| riz__ | So regardless of my method, I need meta-q5 recipe in my yocto build, correct? | 16:33 |
| rburton | a layer just provides a source of packages, it doesn't build anything simply by adding it | 16:34 |
| Anticom | not quite. You need your own layer and recipes inside them | 16:34 |
| seebs | kergoth: I don't really know of anything. read is the closest there is, and yeah, it has issues. | 16:34 |
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| kergoth | seebs: k, figured that might be the case, just wanted to see if you knew of anything obvious off the top of your head :) | 16:35 |
| kergoth | thanks | 16:35 |
| riz__ | And the most basic recipe is just a local.conf and bblayers.conf file correct? | 16:36 |
| riz__ | Basically, is that what is meant by a recipe? | 16:36 |
| kergoth | local.conf and bblayers.conf are configuration for your build directory, that's not a recipe in any way shape or form | 16:36 |
| kergoth | recipes are .bb files in layers | 16:36 |
| Anticom | riz__: no, .conf are configuration files | 16:36 |
| riz__ | Oh yes, sorry | 16:37 |
| riz__ | Thanks | 16:37 |
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| Anticom | mkdir meta-mylayer; cd poky; source oe-init-build-env; bitbake-layers add-layer "path/to/meta-mylayer" | 16:38 |
| Anticom | ^^^ riz__ | 16:38 |
| riz__ | So to develop in QtCreator, I need to make an SDK in my yocto build? | 16:38 |
| riz__ | Thanks | 16:39 |
| Anticom | dunno about graphical stuff but i guess it's best to test the visual stuff in quemu hence i'd build it using bitbake and do the qemu thing | 16:39 |
| riz__ | OK | 16:40 |
| riz__ | When I built core-image-sato-sdk I saw a folder in my host root directory "opt/poky". I was wondering what that was. | 16:40 |
| riz__ | opt/poky/1.6.3 to be more specific | 16:41 |
| rburton | thats where the sdk ends up, /opt/poky/1.6.3/ | 16:42 |
| Anticom | well you COULD use the sdk but IMHO it's easier to let bitbake handle the environment setup and stuff. Moreover you should be able to simply run runquemu quemux86 after building and get your development in an emulator | 16:42 |
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| Anticom | using emulators only gets impractical if you need to interface with some hardware | 16:43 |
| rburton | 1.6.3 is pretty old, please use 2.0 if you can | 16:43 |
| Anticom | at least i wasn't able to find a proper solution to that yet | 16:43 |
| riz__ | What do you mean by "let bitbake handle the environment"? That is where I get really confused. | 16:44 |
| Anticom | riz__: after all you're cross-compiling. This requires a lot of environment setup if you're doing anything more complex than a hello world | 16:45 |
| riz__ | The SDK allows me to point to the required compilers and debuggers in opt/poky. HJow else would you do it? | 16:45 |
| Anticom | let bitbake compile your source | 16:46 |
| Anticom | from how i understood it the SDK is meant to be shipped to 3rd party devs but not for your actual development | 16:47 |
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| riz__ | Is the SDK built from meta-qt5 being included? | 16:48 |
| Anticom | again: meta-qt5 is just a layer | 16:48 |
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| riz__ | So what do I need for the sdk? | 16:50 |
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| Anticom | riz__: you can populate an sdk using bitbake -c populate_sdk <image> | 16:54 |
| Anticom | but YOU don't neccesarily need it for development. | 16:55 |
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| riz__ | So how would I develop in QtCreator without the SDK? | 16:56 |
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| riz__ | Just develop for gereric linux using the default kit? | 16:57 |
| Anticom | riz__: use QTCreator as source file editor and bitbake as compiler | 16:58 |
| Anticom | to put it this way | 16:58 |
| Anticom | as i said, i never did graphics stuff with yocto. that's just how i would do it. dunno whether there's a better way | 16:59 |
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| riz__ | So I cna bitbake individual components without bitbaking the entire yocto build? | 17:00 |
| CTtpollard | yes | 17:00 |
| riz__ | Ahhh | 17:00 |
| CTtpollard | bitbake -e $Package | 17:00 |
| Anticom | usually bitbake is smart enough to figure out, what has changed and only rebuild the neccessary stuff | 17:00 |
| Anticom | *only | 17:01 |
| Anticom | so you don't have to wait hours and hours every time | 17:01 |
| riz__ | And this way the application is built into my image, correct? | 17:01 |
| riz__ | In other words, I would not have to transfer the application over to my board? | 17:01 |
| Anticom | as long as you're having a recipe that tells bitbake how to actually build your source and tell it to install it into your image, then yes | 17:02 |
| Anticom | atm i'm just copying the final image bitbake spits out to an sd card, put that into my target and boot it | 17:02 |
| riz__ | OK. Are there any examples of this I can study? | 17:02 |
| Anticom | poky | 17:02 |
| riz__ | OK great | 17:03 |
| riz__ | Thanks. I have a lot of work to do. I will go play around and try to wrap my head around everything I learned today. Thanks guys. This was gold! | 17:03 |
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| Anticom | riz__: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=yocto+qt+example | 17:04 |
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| Anticom | riz__: after getting some information about the basics from my personal experience it's best to tinker arround. Nothing teaches you more. If you've got some specific questions on some topic, you can always come back here | 17:05 |
| riz__ | I have read all those, but there are many components and different ways of doing the same thing so I wasnt sure the proper direction | 17:05 |
| riz__ | This helped clear things up | 17:05 |
| riz__ | Thanks Anticom! | 17:05 |
| Anticom | you're welcome riz__ | 17:06 |
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| Anticom | grrrr i don't get it. I've explicitly installed connman (with plugin-loopback and plugin-ethernet) and put a config to /etc/systemd/network/foo.network | 17:22 |
| Anticom | But still systemd won't automatically start sshd.service (- sshd.socket is fine -) and my interface won't configure | 17:22 |
| Anticom | Any ideas how to track down the problem? | 17:22 |
| kergoth | adding foo.network won't do anything unless you enable systemd-networkd, afaik | 17:23 |
| kergoth | connman doesn't use that at all, you configure that with connmanctl | 17:23 |
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| Anticom | kergoth: i thought i either needed connman **or** networkd | 17:24 |
| kergoth | you do | 17:24 |
| kergoth | but you installed connman and then added a config file for networkd :P | 17:24 |
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| Anticom | kergoth: so is there a way to live with connman alone? | 17:24 |
| kergoth | yes, configure connman | 17:24 |
| kergoth | google how to do so | 17:24 |
| Anticom | kergoth: i'm always just getting main.conf when i google for how to configure connman | 17:25 |
| rburton | configure connman is almost an oxymoron | 17:25 |
| rburton | if it finds wired ethernet it brings it up | 17:25 |
| Anticom | lol | 17:25 |
| kergoth | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Connman#Usage | 17:25 |
| Anticom | my current connman settings just got [global]OfflineMode=false and [Wired] Enable=true and Tethering=false | 17:25 |
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| rburton | wifi you need to configure once to associate, obviously | 17:25 |
| Anticom | kergoth: wiki says about wired connections: "ConnMan will automatically handle wired connections." | 17:26 |
| kergoth | indeed. or if you want to use static rather than dhcp, or presumably if you want to use usb cdc networking | 17:26 |
| Anticom | kergoth: and this can only be achived via connmanctl? like how would i incorporate this in my build process | 17:27 |
| kergoth | i had to configure connman with connmanctl when i wanted to use usb networking with my boneblack | 17:27 |
| Anticom | it's the same static ip for every device shipped | 17:27 |
| kergoth | Anticom: as the wiki says, the settings end up in /var/lib/connman | 17:27 |
| Anticom | kergoth: I've got a 'settings' file laying arround there with the content i've mentioned | 17:27 |
| Anticom | i wasn't able to find a synopsis of how to configure a static ip for connman in that file | 17:28 |
| Anticom | they're all just talking about connmanctl | 17:28 |
| Anticom | even this doesn't tell it: http://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/connman/connman.git/tree/src/main.conf | 17:28 |
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| kergoth | yes, you'd use connmanctl to configure a static ip as well, and it writes files into /var/lib/connman | 17:28 |
| kergoth | so presumably you'd just ship those | 17:28 |
| kergoth | not that difficult, just very different from how you configure other networking tools | 17:29 |
| kergoth | might be easier to just enable networkd ;) | 17:29 |
| * kergoth isn't a big fan of connman, really.. sometimes useful, but a pain to set up for non-common-cases | 17:29 | |
| Anticom | kergoth: could you paste a valid config file configuring a static ip please? | 17:29 |
| kergoth | you can't take 5 minutes to run connmanctl yourself and look? | 17:29 |
| kergoth | i don't havea board handy | 17:29 |
| Anticom | and i just took connman-client out of my bulid again haha | 17:29 |
| Anticom | cheers anyway | 17:29 |
| kergoth | ah. haha | 17:30 |
| kergoth | oops | 17:30 |
| Anticom | so are there any drawbacks of using networkd? | 17:30 |
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| kergoth | not sure, i haven't used it enough to say, maybe someone else in here knows | 17:30 |
| Anticom | and networkd replaces connman right? | 17:30 |
| kergoth | it's its own thing, yeah. no need for both, afaik | 17:31 |
| Anticom | where is that damn networkd recipe again? | 17:33 |
| Anticom | i just can't find it | 17:33 |
| kergoth | there is no recipe, it's part of systemd | 17:34 |
| kergoth | just enable the packageconfig for it | 17:35 |
| kergoth | 106:PACKAGECONFIG[networkd] = "--enable-networkd,--disable-networkd" | 17:35 |
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| Anticom | kergoth: would i do that in a systemd_%.bbappend? | 17:37 |
| Anticom | or would i write a custom config_network.bb ? | 17:38 |
| kergoth | easier to do it from your distro .conf or local.conf if temporary | 17:38 |
| kergoth | PACKAGECONFIG_append_pn-systemd = " networkd" | 17:38 |
| Anticom | btw why do i need the _pn there? | 17:38 |
| kergoth | because thats what the override is | 17:38 |
| Anticom | okay | 17:38 |
| kergoth | systemd is the PN of the recipe | 17:38 |
| Anticom | so tl;dr; is 'because' | 17:38 |
| kergoth | see the OVERRIDES variable | 17:38 |
| kergoth | pn-${PN} is in there | 17:38 |
| Anticom | okay | 17:39 |
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| kergoth | no, it's because that's what's in OVERRIDES. _append_<some override> is applied when <some override> is in OVERRIDES | 17:39 |
| Anticom | kergoth: And where would i put a config to /etc/systemd/network/ then if i only enable it in my local.conf? | 17:39 |
| kergoth | in this case we prepend pn- to avoid conflicts in the namespace | 17:39 |
| kergoth | i.e. 'linux' can be both a recipe and a target os | 17:39 |
| Anticom | ah, i see | 17:39 |
| kergoth | this *did* bite us in the past :) | 17:39 |
| kergoth | you'd need to add it to a recipe, either to systemd itself or create a new recipe to ship the configuration | 17:40 |
| kergoth | the latter being cleaner | 17:40 |
| Anticom | kergoth: and if i had a new recipe anyway i could also do the packageconfig there i guess | 17:40 |
| kergoth | no | 17:41 |
| kergoth | one recipe can't change another | 17:41 |
| kergoth | your new recipe cant' change how systemd builds | 17:41 |
| kergoth | create a distro, optionally including another, in the distro you add your configuration to your images by adding it to DISTRO_EXTRA_RRECOMMENDS and change the systemd config | 17:42 |
| kergoth | IMO that's the best approach, but as with everything else in yocto, there are many ways to do it | 17:42 |
| Anticom | kergoth: btw wouldn't += be more appropriate even for PACKAGECONFIG_append ? | 17:43 |
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| kergoth | no | 17:43 |
| Anticom | what if someone want's to append some other config? | 17:44 |
| kergoth | i don't understand the question | 17:44 |
| Anticom | wouldn't that discard the first one | 17:44 |
| kergoth | _append is an operator | 17:44 |
| kergoth | like += and .=, only lazy | 17:44 |
| kergoth | it's cumulative | 17:44 |
| Anticom | PACKAGECONFIG_append_pn-systemd = " networkd" >>>>>> PACKAGECONFIG_append_pn-systemd += " networkd" | 17:44 |
| kergoth | every _append is applied | 17:44 |
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| Anticom | are you sure? | 17:44 |
| kergoth | the only difference between those two lines is the += added your space for you | 17:44 |
| kergoth | Given I wrote bitbake's recipe parser when we started the project, yes, i'm pretty sure | 17:45 |
| Anticom | i thought PACKAGECONFIG_append_pn-systemd was a "regular" variable | 17:45 |
| kergoth | no | 17:45 |
| Anticom | rburton: can you please confirm this? | 17:45 |
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| kergoth | are you kidding? | 17:45 |
| Anticom | kergoth: someone just told me the other way arround | 17:45 |
| Anticom | not that i wouldn't trust you, sorry | 17:45 |
| kergoth | again, i was one of the founders of the project, and co-wrote the bitbake user manual | 17:45 |
| kergoth | https://www.yoctoproject.org/docs/1.6/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual.html | 17:45 |
| kergoth | https://www.yoctoproject.org/docs/1.6/bitbake-user-manual/bitbake-user-manual.html#appending-and-prepending-override-style-syntax | 17:46 |
| Anticom | kergoth: is this maybe different for other _append vars? | 17:46 |
| kergoth | no, it's not | 17:46 |
| Anticom | dunno who told me += was better. I'd have to check the irc logs | 17:46 |
| kergoth | using += and _append together is pointless and redundant. | 17:46 |
| Anticom | but thank's for pointing that out | 17:46 |
| kergoth | using += *instead* of _append when appropriate makes a lot of sense, as there's no point using the lazy operation if you don't need it | 17:47 |
| kergoth | but it's the only way to use an override to append conditionally, so it's your only option in this case | 17:47 |
| Anticom | kergoth: i thought the XYZ_append vars where regular vars untill the point XYZ was actually evaluated | 17:47 |
| kergoth | nope, when it's parsed they're added to a list of appends | 17:47 |
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| kergoth | then when expanded in recent bitbake, or at the end of parsing in old bitbake, they're all appended | 17:47 |
| Anticom | to what list? | 17:47 |
| Anticom | now i'm confused again | 17:47 |
| Anticom | :/ | 17:47 |
| kergoth | internally | 17:48 |
| kergoth | FOO_append = "bar"; FOO_append = "baz" -> FOO now has a list of appends including bar and baz | 17:48 |
| kergoth | whicha re then applied when you get the value of FOO | 17:48 |
| kergoth | hence, lazy, postponed operation, not immediate at prse time like .= and += | 17:48 |
| Anticom | okay got it | 17:48 |
| Anticom | thanks again for pointing that out | 17:49 |
| kergoth | np | 17:49 |
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| Anticom | had a wrong assumption from back when i was told differently | 17:49 |
| Anticom | :) | 17:49 |
| kergoth | sorry if i came off a bit harsh, but this is in the bitbake manual as an operator, part of the syntax :) | 17:50 |
| kergoth | afk | 17:50 |
| Anticom | kergoth: stating that it was a "regular" variable made kind of sense to me | 17:50 |
| kergoth | override versions of a variable are a regular variable until the override is applied | 17:51 |
| kergoth | perhaps thats where teh confusion set in | 17:51 |
| kergoth | overrides, not append/prepend | 17:51 |
| Anticom | wasn't there _remove too? | 17:52 |
| kergoth | i.e. do_install and do_install_arm. the latter is just a variable named do_install_arm unless arm is in OVERRIDES, at which point it replaces do_install and do_install_arm goes away | 17:52 |
| Anticom | i guess that one is immediate too | 17:52 |
| kergoth | there is, yes | 17:52 |
| Anticom | okay got it | 17:52 |
| kergoth | it's like append and prepend, cumulative and postponed | 17:52 |
| Anticom | so do_install_arm_append just applies to do_install_arm (and that immediatley) and afterwards becomes do_install? | 17:53 |
| kergoth | _append is never immediate, but other than that, yes, that's correct | 17:53 |
| kergoth | which is why _<override>_append and _append_<override> are very different things | 17:53 |
| Anticom | jesus christ | 17:53 |
| Anticom | kergoth: could you in theory expand this indefinetly? like _append_append ? | 17:54 |
| kergoth | FOO_append_override conditionally appends to FOO. FOO_override_append will append to FOO_override, which then *replaces* FOO, so the latter replaces existing values in FOO if FOO_override is undefined | 17:54 |
| kergoth | that woudln't do anything, no. _append_append would append when 'append' is in OVERRIDES | 17:54 |
| Anticom | so it becomes an OVERRIDE automatically? | 17:54 |
| Anticom | like one override and one _append/_remove is all you can have | 17:54 |
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| kergoth | multiple overrides are handled specifically | 17:55 |
| kergoth | but again, append/prepend/remove is an *operator* | 17:55 |
| kergoth | it's handled at parse time | 17:55 |
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| Anticom | okay | 17:55 |
| Anticom | learned quite a lot in the past few minutes | 17:55 |
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| Anticom | feel like i've got a master degree in bitbakery now lol | 17:56 |
| kergoth | think of append/prepend/remove as just a bad syntax for a similar operation to +=/.=/=+/=., just lazy and their syntax allows for the override. we shouldn't have used _ as the separator for overrides, as it's also allowed in variable names, and we shouldnt' have used _append/_prepend/_remove as operators when the syntax differs so much from the other operators | 17:57 |
| kergoth | but it's a tad too late tod o much about it now unless we add a new recipe format :) | 17:57 |
| Anticom | kergoth: is there a common policy with breaking changes in major releases? | 17:58 |
| Anticom | even if it's just on the schedule for the long run, it still might make sense to change if breaking changes are allowed for majors | 17:58 |
| Anticom | IMO | 17:58 |
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| Anticom | hm but that would make it impossible to have _append_override | 17:59 |
| kergoth | some breaking changes do go in at major releases, at times with a deprecation for one release cycle. richard has done so before | 18:00 |
| kergoth | i.e. the syntax of getVar() and getVarFlag(), the expand parameter was optional, now it's mandatory, so in a future major release we can change the default to be expanded rather than unexpanded | 18:00 |
| kergoth | we haven't done much with the file format yet, though. we'd need to either be fully backwards compatible, or add a file format version to the format, or use a new extension, mos tlikely | 18:01 |
| Anticom | oh before i forget: I was wondering just the other day, whether there's a "nice" nfs server solution in yocto. Do you know anything on that topic? | 18:01 |
| kergoth | not sure on that one, sorry. about the only time i use nfs is an occasional nfsroot with a server already running nfs and tftp servers, or once a blue moon with qemu | 18:02 |
| Anticom | kergoth: i just gave it a quick google and saw, that there's a userspace implementation of a nfs server in py. Made me wonder, whether it would be possible to implement some convenience stuff like runquemu | 18:03 |
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| kergoth | note that richard is the architect, breaking changes are his forte, i haven't done much with the core in many years, he'd make the call on any chnages to the file format or behavior over time | 18:03 |
| kergoth | it would be nice if runqemu ran the nfsroot server on its own, if it doesn't now | 18:03 |
| Anticom | kergoth: so he's the brain behind bitbake? | 18:03 |
| kergoth | there are a few folks with deep bitbake knowledge nowadays, paul, richard, etc, but he's the project lead and architect, yes. he took over as maintainer after i left and made massive improvements, it's his baby now :) | 18:04 |
| kergoth | i'd really like to see runqemu arrange for automatic package feed configuration, pointing at the tmp/deploy/ feeds | 18:04 |
| Anticom | hehe | 18:04 |
| kergoth | so you could runqemu, then drop in and install new packages with opkg or smart or whatever directly | 18:04 |
| Anticom | kergoth: i know literally nothing about virtualization with quemu | 18:04 |
| Anticom | I really need to take a closer look at this to understand what's going on. Maybe i might be able to contribute then one day | 18:05 |
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| Anticom | root | 18:15 |
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| Capso | I have a gumstix overo fire with tobi board running yocto. I've tried to attach a multiple port powered USB hub to the USB port on the tobi board and a SATA USB drive to the USB hub, but the yocto image on the gumstix only picks up the USB hub and not the devices - how can I mount the USB drive on the gumstix so I can use it? | 18:53 |
| kergoth | RP: should i re-submit shallow git mirror tarball support as an rfc or patch series? it will need careful review. shouldn't impact anything when it's not enabled, afaik | 18:54 |
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| riz__ | After runnning oe-init-build-env I got an error "can't open /poky/.templateconf". Never happened to me before. Any idea what the problem is? | 20:44 |
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| riz__ | Furthermore I noticed that the bblayers.cong and local.conf files were not created in /build/conf | 20:46 |
| riz__ | bblayers.conf* | 20:47 |
| bluelightning | RP: rburton: there seems to be something wrong here ^ | 20:50 |
| kergoth | riz__: 'running'? | 20:50 |
| kergoth | you don't run that script, you source it | 20:51 |
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| riz__ | I did source it. Sorry | 20:52 |
| riz__ | I got that error right after sourcing | 20:52 |
| kergoth | guessing it must be related to the recent changes to let oedir be overridden? not sure | 20:52 |
| riz__ | The only thing I did different from previous times was that I placed the build folder in the same directory as the poky folder | 20:53 |
| riz__ | I don;t know if it is related but that is all I can think of | 20:53 |
| riz__ | I don't even see a .templateconf in poky | 20:54 |
| riz__ | What is that anyway? | 20:54 |
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| rburton | huh | 20:56 |
| rburton | riz__: with the poky tarball release? | 20:56 |
| riz__ | yes. Jethro | 20:56 |
| Capso | what is the use of the CONFIG_MASS_STORAGE option in the yocto kernel? | 20:56 |
| riz__ | It is just odd because I have done this many times already | 20:58 |
| Capso | oops CONFIG_USB_MASS_STORAGE | 20:58 |
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| riz__ | And I am not sure what .templateconf is or where it is to even investigate the issue | 20:58 |
| rburton | Capso: to build the mass storage gadget driver i guess | 20:59 |
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| rburton | riz__: there's a file at the top of the poky dir called .templateconf | 20:59 |
| rburton | riz__: sounds like you've either broken your poky tree, or running the oe-init-buildenv script wrong | 21:00 |
| rburton | (another reason why i like working in clones of the git repo) | 21:00 |
| riz__ | I just typed "source poky/oe-init-build-env" | 21:01 |
| Capso | rburton, is that needed to be able to use a SATA USB drive from gumstix? | 21:01 |
| Capso | rburton, because currently the yocto image does not give me a mountable device when I plug in the drive on the USB port | 21:02 |
| riz__ | I just doublechecked the tar I downloaded "poky-jethro-14.0.1.tar.bz2", and it still doesnt have that file | 21:02 |
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| riz__ | I just downloaded it and extracted it | 21:02 |
| riz__ | no .templateconf | 21:03 |
| riz__ | unless it is hidden | 21:03 |
| rburton | yes, a dot file is hidden | 21:03 |
| riz__ | so it just cant open it | 21:04 |
| rburton | can you pastebin a log of you trying to do . oe-init-buidlenv? | 21:05 |
| rburton | ~/Downloads | 21:05 |
| rburton | $ tar jtvf poky-jethro-14.0.1.tar.bz2|grep templateconf | 21:05 |
| rburton | -rw-r--r-- 0 pokybuild users 66 24 Feb 09:04 poky-jethro-14.0.1/.templateconf | 21:05 |
| rburton | definitely in the tarball ^^ | 21:05 |
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| Capso | is it possible to build yocto on Mac OS X? | 21:05 |
| Capso | (natively) | 21:05 |
| rburton | Capso: no | 21:07 |
| Capso | bah my linux machine has an encrypted drive, so I can't do it there (long filenames not available) | 21:07 |
| rburton | use a proper crypted drive not that piece of **** that ubuntu use :) | 21:07 |
| Capso | :-( | 21:07 |
| Capso | well, kinda too late to change that up now | 21:08 |
| rburton | dm-crypt instead of i-cant-believe-this-works-at-all | 21:08 |
| rburton | make a giant file inside the crypted drive, put a ext4 file system inside it, mount it | 21:08 |
| Capso | ah nice | 21:08 |
| Capso | know what's a good size for it? | 21:09 |
| rburton | many many gig | 21:09 |
| rburton | /dev/sdb1 1.8T 1.5T 354G 81% /data | 21:09 |
| rburton | thats my build disk | 21:09 |
| RP | kergoth: to be honest I'd really prefer to do that post 2.1 | 21:09 |
| Capso | rburton, *terrabytes*? | 21:09 |
| RP | kergoth: sending a patch series would good for 2.2 though | 21:09 |
| rburton | Capso: hell yeah | 21:09 |
| rburton | Capso: i admit this may not be normal usage | 21:10 |
| Capso | rburton, just to build yocto? I only need to build for gumstix overo | 21:10 |
| Capso | I mean the images fit on 2G SD card | 21:10 |
| rburton | a built kernel tree is several gig | 21:10 |
| rburton | well how much space do you have | 21:10 |
| Capso | and actually, I just want USB disks to be mountable :-( | 21:10 |
| riz__ | Ahhhh | 21:10 |
| riz__ | found my problem | 21:10 |
| riz__ | sorry | 21:10 |
| riz__ | I missed the file when copying because it was hidden | 21:11 |
| Capso | I'm currently using hackgnar's prebuilt yocto image, but I'm guessing it doesn't have CONFIG_MASS_USB_STORAGE enabled - if even that's the right thing to look at | 21:11 |
| Capso | rburton, 80G or so | 21:11 |
| rburton | Capso: give it 40gb | 21:11 |
| Capso | ok | 21:11 |
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| rburton | from google that's the option to make your image behave like a usb storage device | 21:11 |
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| Capso | oh no that's not what I want | 21:14 |
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| Capso | I want to be able to read/write my USB attached storage devices | 21:14 |
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| kergoth | RP: k, that works, thanks | 21:24 |
| RP | kergoth: I was also being pointed at using git bundle instead of our roll our own tarballs | 21:25 |
| kergoth | hmm, interesting idea | 21:25 |
| * RP suspects we're not quite at the right minimum git versions for that yet | 21:25 | |
| RP | but worth thinking about | 21:25 |
| kergoth | yeah | 21:25 |
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| kergoth | I wonder how the performance of bundle is, particularly with many branches | 21:30 |
| RP | kergoth: I had a lot of questions and no real answers... | 21:31 |
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| RP | Crofton|work: its looking increasingly unlikely I'll make ELC btw, don't have any travel budget/approval. Add in some health related stuff and its not looking good :( | 21:32 |
| Capso | rburton, the yocto kernels for gumstix overo do have USB filesystem device drivers, yeah? | 21:45 |
| rburton | Capso: no idea | 21:52 |
| rburton | i'd be surprised if they didn't and you needed to more than just load modules | 21:52 |
| bluelightning | Crofton|work: FWIW, I probably won't be able to make it to ELC either | 21:53 |
| bluelightning | hopefully our electronic arrangements will be slightly better than last year... | 21:53 |
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| Capso | I moved my yocto directory and now bitbake can't find the layer.conf file because the paths were hardcoded somehow - how can I fix it without having to re-download the entire repo? | 22:13 |
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| rburton1 | yes | 22:16 |
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| rburton1 | conf/bblayers.conf | 22:16 |
| Capso | rburton1, and where can I change the expected location of the tmpdir? | 22:22 |
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| rburton1 | Capso: conf/local.conf | 22:23 |
| Capso | actually, tmp/saved_tmpdir cause it saved the hard-coded path | 22:26 |
| rburton1 | yeah you need to delete the old tmpdir | 22:27 |
| rburton1 | as it has hard-coded paths all over it | 22:27 |
| rburton1 | it can rebuild from sstate in seconds though | 22:27 |
| Capso | ah nice. thanks | 22:27 |
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| Capso | rburton1, thanks for the hint about the loop device :-) | 22:43 |
| rburton1 | np | 22:44 |
| Capso | my "build configuration" during bitbake gumstix-console-image shows no hash for meta-networking, meaning to me that it won't be built - is thar gith? | 22:45 |
| Capso | that right* | 22:45 |
| Capso | is it needed for wpa_supplicant and wlan0 to work? | 22:46 |
| Capso | or is it some other utilities? | 22:46 |
| rburton1 | wpa-supplicant is part of oe-core | 22:50 |
| rburton1 | meta-networking contains, if you look at the recipes, more advanced networking stuff | 22:50 |
| Capso | I see, ok | 22:51 |
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