Monday, 2016-06-06

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pthomasI have several questions, First, I want to play with a poky rootfs over nfs, should I be using tmp/work/<mach>/core-image-base/1.0-r0/rootfs?01:26
pthomasbut I think I have a permission problem because in that location everything is still my user, so I get "ping: permission denied (are you root?)"01:27
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pthomasAnother question along the same lines, if I want to compile a project that isn't setup for cross-compiling (openswan in this case), can I use qemu for the dev system? because I don't think anything is persisted when I do "runqemu qemuarm"01:32
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kergothpthomas: no, you should add tar.bz2 to IMAGE_FSTYPES and extract the generated tarball as root. the bits in tmp/work are artifacts used by the build process only01:45
kergothpthomas: and no, qemu is not an appropriate method for fixing it01:45
pthomascan I set IMAGE_FSTYPES from local.conf?01:48
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pthomasthanks the IMAGE_FSTYPES is what I needed02:08
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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #545 of nightly-oe-selftest is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at
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RagBalIs there a way to force OE to create a package even if the corresponding packages-split folder is empty?09:33
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pohlyRagBal: set ALLOW_EMPTY_<package name> = "1"10:09
RagBalpohly, so easy, thanks =)10:10
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snoutoHello everyone12:24
snoutoi have successfully managed to build core-image-minimal and i have added my own custom recipes12:24
snoutothat is great12:24
snoutobut , the core-image-minimal file system does not look like ubuntu server for instance.12:25
snoutoit does not contain /usr/share , /usr/lib.....etc12:25
snoutoalso , there is no sudo or apt-get12:25
snoutohow can i include these into my core-image-minimal12:25
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snoutoHow can i include "sudo" and "apt-get" into core-image-minimal12:26
rburtoncore-image-minimal certainly does contain /usr/share and /usr/lib12:29
rburtonyou add apt-get by ensuring IMAGE_FEATURES contains package-management, and sudo by adding it to IMAGE_INSTALL (IMAGE_INSTALL_append = " sudo")12:29
rburtonnote that when you start doing this you're battling against core-image-minimal which intends to be *minimal*12:30
rburtonso i'd start with something like core-image-base12:30
rburtonand if you want apt then set PACKAGE_CLASSES to package_deb, but be aware that rpm and ipk are better tested/supported12:30
snoutoruburton, Nice to see you here12:31
snoutocan i speak with you privately !12:31
rburtonyou can ask in public so others can learn12:32
rburtonalso excuse the crumbs as i'm eating my lunch12:33
snoutorburton, bon appetite12:34
snoutolet me check something and get back to you until you finish your lunch12:34
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snoutorburton , how can i change the name of the OS when the user writes , uname -a12:44
snoutointo the command prompt12:44
snoutorburton, i used core-image-minimal , because the whole idea of creating a linux distro from scratch is to be secure , i wanted to get rid of ALL packages except only the ones i do need them along with their dependencies12:49
rburtonwell minimal explicitly disables some bits that you may not want disabled12:49
snoutoi took a bottom-up approach , it is better to know each and every piece of installed packages on this OS12:49
rburtonbasically, write your own image recipe :)12:49
snoutowrite my own !12:50
snoutofor what !12:50
snoutofor changing the linux name  ?12:50
snoutoi want to change the linux name when user types "uname -a" into the shell12:50
rburtonno, write your own image recipe as the core-image-* are just examples12:56
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rburtonnot sure how to change uname actually12:56
rburtonwhat bit do you want to change?12:58
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rburtonif the bit where it says linux, then 1) why and 2) the kernel, i imagine12:58
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snoutorburton, i will be back13:01
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atmchi, i'm trying to add cmake to my yocto image, but just adding the recipe doesn't provide the binary14:20
atmcjust /usr/lib/cmake14:20
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RoelofAre there statistics about how many people are using Yocto (in percent compared to other embedded solutions) ?14:55
neverpanicWho would generate such statistics?14:57
RoelofGood question :)14:58
fraythere are survey results that show usage or OE, Yocto, and commercial offerings based on the YP are the majority of embedded Linux development these days..14:59
frayI'll see if I can find the figures..14:59
RoelofThat'd be awesome. It is quite popular, right ? Is there a chance, that it is the most popular solution nowadays ?14:59
frayit is the most popular solution from what the last survey..15:00
frayI don't know if it hit 50% yet.. but a lot of the stuff is custom home created..15:00
RoelofWow, that's a lot.15:00
frayAndroid is a big chunk as well..15:01
frayI'm not finding the survey.. (least the most recent) but my memory was something like 30-40% was OE/YP/Commercial15:01
frayabotu 20% was Android..15:01
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RoelofOk, thanks a lot.15:02
frayand the rest was buildroot (a few %), commercial solutions (not YP based) (a few more) and then home grown the rest..15:02
fraythere is a lot of roll-your-own Linux still15:02
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RoelofInteresting. I have to convince some managers here to do the right choice ;)15:03
frayI'd tell anyone these days to stay away from roll-your-own..15:04
frayAndroid is useful, but I prefer YP for the things I do..15:04
fray(and you can get commercial versions if appropriate for your org)15:04
RoelofWe have a lot of (hard) real-time stuff, and I have the feeling that Android is not so realtime-related than YP ?15:05
frayAndroid is Linux with a different userspace15:05
frayyou need to define what YOU need for hard real-time to decide if Linux is even correct for you..15:05
frayI've got customers with real time requirements in the 'second' range (Linux is no problem), ms range (usually Linux is no problem, assuming good drivers), and micro second range.. not really a Linux solution there.. (but Linux is 'better')15:06
RoelofAccording to our measurements, Linux ha less Jitter than even VxWorks and QNX. (Took 6 months to measure).15:06
RoelofLet me grab the figures ...15:06
frayRoelof (I can only speak for Linux and VxWorks) and the answer all depends on hardware and drivers15:06
frayVxWorks, tuned properly can perform better then Linux, especially at the small time scales..15:07
fraybut Linux can hold it's own in the ms range, and definitely second range..15:07
fray(and yes, real-time in seconds is a thing..  people often confuse real-time for performance, it's usually the opposite)15:08
RoelofJust if it's interesting: We used the default Yocto for i.mx6 and had a jitter of max. 42 us at a 1ms tick. That's pretty cool. VxWorks was 67 us and QNX 47 us.15:09
RoelofBut we did strange stuff: We had to process everything in the user-space for some reasons.15:09
frayI have very little experience on the i.mx6 so I'm not sure how good/bad that is.. but it seems reasonable for that processor15:10
frayyes.. the only way to get low time slice numbers in Linux is process in user-space, as it lets the system keep processing the data at a faster rate15:10
fraythat is pretty standard implementation on Linux, and somewhat 'strange' on VxWorks..  (model is just different)15:10
RoelofYes, we ended up with using VxWorks for other reasons. (Our demand was 100us jitter, so all thre OSes were feasible).15:11
frayBTW I found part of the 2014 survey.. and in this one android is around 30% and YP (and all related) are closer to 20% from what I can tell..15:12
frayI seem to remember the 2015 survey the YP surpassed android..15:12
frayLinux if you want Open Source.. VxWorks if you want closed source... (I work for Wind River, but on the Linux side.. so I only have passing knowledge of VxWorks)..15:13
fraythat is pretty much the sales model for the two15:13
RoelofOk, we appreciate that WindRiver has a steak in Yocto, we also evaluated WindRiver Linux two years ago.15:15
frayas I tell customers regularly.. don't buy into the hyper.. and don't keep buying what you always have.. you need to investigate, otherwise you are going to get stuck..15:16
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frayit's part of my job to make sure Linux continue to improve in useful ways for OS creators15:16
frayya.. I can't find any public surveys news then 2014..15:17
frayand the ones I'm finding are not breaking out Linux specifically..15:17
fray(I was in a talk somewhere, wish I could remember where, that did break the numbers out int he Linux OS market and they were 2015 numbers)15:17
frayYP and Android were the two clear 'embedded' Linux OSes.. with re-use of workstation/server (Ubuntu, Debian, Red Hat) and Roll-your-own a combined third (roughly)15:18
RoelofOk, thanks for looking. At least I can tell now, that Yocto is one of the biggest players, and as WR Linux ist based on it, it would be a reasonable solution..15:19
RoelofThanks a lot ! Bye, bye :)15:19
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aureleHi everyone15:30
aureleI'm using datetime in a receipe version 'PV := "${PVBASE}.${SRCPV}.${DATETIME}"'. I used this without any errors but now with krogoth, I got those kind of errors : skellgip2-svn.10498.20160606152022-r0 do_install: Taskhash mismatch a63aac1b85f10faa47a6a3766acef59e verses 503595a3fab2b3d93c5da4f6d6a1ee9b for /home/aurele/workspace/yocto/moniteur-krogoth/sources/meta-castel/recipes-castel/skellgip2/
aurelehow could I keep the "datetime" in my receipe version (to have a file updated according to build time during every build)15:34
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snoutorburton,i am back15:34
snoutoi am sorry my friend , i had an urgent meeting15:35
aurelethanks for any idea15:35
snoutorburton, i had added PACKAGE_CLASSES +=" package_deb"15:35
snoutobut apt is not added15:35
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snoutorburton, when the user execute "uname -a" , it shows linux yocto something like this15:38
snoutoi would like to give the linux a name15:38
snoutoit is the default name for core-image-minimal15:38
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rburtonsnouto: that's the kernel version, so that's where you want to fiddle the strings.  have a look at the kernel recipes15:51
rburtonsnouto: and if you don't get apt installed then you didn't have package-management in IMAGE_FEATURES15:51
snoutorburton, i managed to get it to work15:52
snoutoyou were absolutely right15:52
snoutothe thing is that package_classes was declared above in the local.conf , i didn't see this at first and it was pointing to package_rpm instead15:52
snoutoi configured this and i successfully installed apt-get15:52
snoutoplease rburton , do you know how can i generate an .iso for my linux15:53
snoutothrough "live" image15:53
snoutobut where can i declare "live"15:54
kergothmorning all15:54
snoutokergoth, thanks15:54
snoutoin local.conf , right ?15:54
snoutoIMAGE_FSTYPES ?="live"15:55
snoutothat is all !15:56
snoutorburton, where is the kernel recipe should be located ?15:58
snoutoin meta-poky , right ?15:58
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snoutofound it15:59
snoutoit is in meta folder15:59
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snoutokergoth, after adding "live" to IMAGE_FSTYPES ?="live"16:07
snoutoi received this error16:07
snoutoERROR: Nothing PROVIDES 'syslinux'16:07
snoutoERROR: syslinux was skipped: incompatible with host arm-poky-linux-gnueabi (not in COMPATIBLE_HOST)16:07
snoutoERROR: Required build target 'core-image-minimal' has no buildable providers.16:07
snoutoMissing or unbuildable dependency chain was: ['core-image-minimal', 'syslinux']16:07
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snoutokergoth , rburton: how can i add gcc into core-image-minimal ?16:09
rburtonadd "gcc" to IMAGE_INSTALL16:10
kergoththe live images are only supported on archs that support syslinux, that's correct16:10
rburtonthis is in the documentation under "adding packages to images"16:10
kergothor grub-efi or gummiboot, i think, for efi systems16:10
snoutoi have added "gcc" to IMAGE_INSTALL_APPEND16:11
snoutoIMAGE_INSTALL_append =" psplash example complexyocto sudo python gcc"16:11
rburtonif you actually want a working toolchain then add tools-sdk to IMAGE_FEATURES16:11
rburtonnote, compilers are versioned unless you also install the symlink package, so its gcc-5.2 or whatever16:11
rburton(you can tell that by looking at the contents of the gcc package, using oe-pkgdata-util)16:11
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snoutodo you mean by adding "tools-sdk" to image_features , i will have a gcc16:12
rburtonwell "gcc" gives you gcc-[version] which isn't a problem, and there's another package that installs the symlinks for default versions.16:13
rburtonbut i guess you'll also want a linker16:13
rburtonso its best to just use tools-sdk16:13
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snoutokergoth,rburton: how can i get my core-image-minimal to support syslinux ?16:17
kergothyou can't magically make syslinux work for arm16:17
snoutocurrently i am building against ARM processors16:17
snoutoso you mean , if i made it x86 machine or x64 it shall work ?16:17
rburtonthe current live image code needs syslinux, you can port it to something else to make it work on other hardware, or build for x86 if that's acceptable for testing16:18
rburtonor don't use live images16:18
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snoutook , i will follow you , so , basically , no live image for arm processors16:19
snoutoso this raises two questions16:19
snouto1. if i want to deploy my linux into a hardware appliance that has arm processor , how can i get my linux installed there16:19
kergothi'm not sure what good you'd expect a live cd to do you on an arm machine, most of which don't support booting from a cd even if they had a drive connected, which most don't16:19
kergoththat depends on the hardware16:20
snouto2.if i changed my configuration in local.conf to map to qemux86-64 and specified "live" , will it work ?16:20
snoutoso how can i deploy my core-image-minimal into a board that has arm ?16:21
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snoutothrough flash memory or something ?16:21
kergothas i just said, that depends on the hardware16:21
kergothupdate/flash/boot methods vary16:21
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snoutofrom where can i read more about update /flash/boot methods16:27
snoutodo you have any online references kergoth ?16:27
kergothas i just said, it varies. read up about whatever hardware you're trying to work on16:27
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billrsnouto: typically with ARM platforms, u-boot is your friend. You can use u-boot to download a kernel and rootfs image then program them into local NAND flash on the board or to an SD-card. You can also use u-boot to configure the board to load kernel image via tftp and mount rootfs via NFS for testing purposes (if your board has Ethernet available). Other alternatives, if SD-card is available is to use tools on your development system to copy files to SD car16:34
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billrsnouto: if your hardware does not come with u-boot pre-installed, then you need to read up on built-in first/second stage bootloader for your h/w on how to load u-boot over network, usb or serial and flash into NAND. Although some h/w will also load direct from SD card, if present, so you can put second stage loader, u-boot, kernel and rootfs all on SD card. As kergoth said, it really depends on what your hardware supports.16:37
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snoutobillr, Thank you for this expert opinion , i will have to check with the h/w company for this16:41
snoutobillr, can i read about this "You can use u-boot to download a kernel and rootfs image then program them into local NAND flash on the board or to an SD-card" in u-boot documentation ?16:42
billrsnoutu: yes, that is in the u-boot documentation16:43
snoutoactually , the h/w company already provided me an intel atom processor as a prototype16:43
snoutoand it is a soc chip16:44
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kergothatom isn't arm. i think your'e a bit confused :)16:44
snoutoi told them it is ok for a prototype , but for production appliances , i will prefer an intel xeon16:44
snoutoi knew16:44
snoutoatom is intel16:44
kergothwhy do you care about deploying to an arm board if what you're getting is x86 anyway?16:45
snoutoi started arm because i read about yocto from a book and i followed the examples , the book was targetting arm16:45
snoutoso i choosed arm16:45
kergothso pick a different machine and move on16:45
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kergothqemu isn't a board anyway, it's emulation16:45
snoutobecause qemuarm image i am building is for testing purposes , i am checking how can i install required recipes , scratch my head around it , then i will oe-init a complete different environment for the OS later16:45
snoutokergoth: qemuarm is just a testing image to get experience in yocto16:46
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snoutoi am still learning it piece by piece and because i am not a h/w guy , that is why i feel with a bit difficulty in these variations between h/w and processors16:47
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billrsnouto: if you just picked arm for demo, to learn about installing packages, then pick something closer to your final h/w, like qemux86 then do an actual build for the atom and load onto your initial h/w16:48
snoutobillr: exactly , that is what i am doing right now , i changed into qemx86_6416:48
snoutoand poky is now building it from scratch , i will stick to this because it is the closer to the target board16:49
snoutowhen i started , i didn't even know what h/w i will target16:49
billrsnouto: good idea16:49
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francisHello! Using poky 2.1 with meta-openembedded, I get a bunch of deprecation warnings like this one:18:05
francisNOTE: build/../meta-openembedded/meta-networking/recipes-support/stunnel/ base_contains is deprecated, please use bb.utils.contains instead.18:05
francisshould I open a bug for that?18:06
kergothmeta-openembedded doesn't have a bug tracking system, last i checked, so not sure where you'd plan to do that18:06
paulgis your meta-networking up to date?   I know the maintainer fixed a bunch of those within the last wk or two.18:06
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francispaulg, kergoth: my meta-openembedded directory was stalled, yeah indeed updating solved the issue, sorry for the noise18:25
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kergothRP: WARNING: libevdev-1.5.1-r0 do_fetch: Couldn't load checksums from donestamp /scratch/yocto-new/poison-ldflags/build.nodistro/downloads/libevdev-1.5.1.tar.xz.done: ValueError (msg: unsupported pickle protocol: 4)20:29
kergothlooks like it's no longer happy to share downloads amongst numerous yocto releases20:29
kergothwe really shouldn't be using pickle to begin with for persistence, it's known to have lots of issues. should look into switching to another text or binary format20:30
* kergoth ponders20:30
paulgso the python3 we generate for builld-appliance doesn't have the "multiprocessing" module.  Looking at other distros, it lives in libpython3-stdlib (ubu)20:31
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paulgand we can't get off the ground in bitbake w/o that module; not seeing where our equivalent would be just yet...20:32
kergothcheck the manifest .inc20:33
kergotheither that or use oe-pkgdata-util20:33
kergothhmm, why is gcc-runtime-external gettng a taskbase hash mismatch20:33
paulglooks promising.20:36
* paulg installs20:36
kergothHmm.. wonder if I can rework bb.process in such a way that it retains compatibility with the *numerous* users of it, but still align much more closely with subprocess20:36
* kergoth pokes at it20:36
* paulg expects this to be a lather-rinse-repeat affair...20:36
paulgwonder if there is a parent meta-package.20:37
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paulgImportError: No module named 'sqlite3'20:42
paulgImportError: No module named 'pysqlite2'20:43
paulgsee this going on for a while..20:43
paulgmeta/recipes-devtools/python/  has it.  Wonder why it didn't get installed.20:44
kergothwe don't already have a packagegroup for 'the bits bitbake needs to run'?20:45
fraythat was the buildtools tarball wasn't it?20:45
paulgI got 42 python3 pkgs installed.  But clearly that wasn't enough...20:45
paulgI'll stick with the manual mode for a bit just to see what else shakes loose after that.20:46
paulgsolution might be obvious to a seasoned bitbake person vs. a kernel guy flailing around learning as he goes.  :)20:48
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bluelightningif you had buildtools installed before you need to rebuild it and reinstall it20:51
bluelightningsince it now has the python3 bits in it20:52
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* paulg builds buildtools-tarball20:59
paulgI'm not stuck with my builder not being able to build itself ; I've got a 2nd machine with a bog std ubu install that builds ok after I fixed meta-overc and meta-cloud-services21:00
paulgso I was copying rpms off of that and onto the one w/o the right modules installed...21:00
paulguntil it wanted pdb module, and we didn't have an rpm for that.  :-/21:00
paulgmaybe building buildtools will generate the missing ones.21:01
paulgyay, buildtools fails on binutils cross SDK  | error: Please use exactly Autoconf 2.64 instead of 2.69.21:06
* paulg goes off to order an "I hate autoconf" T-shirt21:06
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paulg...makes sense21:21
* paulg installs21:21
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* RP dreads to think what paulg is doing. Taking a buildtools-tarball from somewhere else (like our AB) and using that would probably work21:46
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paulgRP, meta-overc, which was basically a 64 bit build appliance with kernel and grub so you could use it for real dev.21:55
paulg(for purpose of this discussion) -- making it work again after all the python3 fallout.21:55
RPpaulg: I'm told we had buildtools-tarball working so I'm just surprised the work its involving :/21:56
paulgmaybe if I use a 32 bit config...21:56
paulgI've got all the pyton3 modules on it now and I'm fighting with this...21:57
paulgPlease use a locale setting which supports utf-8.21:57
paulgPython can't change the filesystem locale after loading so we need a utf-8 when python starts or things won't work.21:57
RPpaulg: We also fixed buildtools-tarball for that21:58
paulgI had the locale stuff satisifed prior to the py2 --> py3 update but now it appears more strict.21:58
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paulglet me look into the changes for buildtools-tarball ;  prior to today I didn't know it even existed.21:58
paulgthanks for the commit ; save me digging.21:58
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paulghrrm. will have to see what is in nativesdk-locale-base-en-us ; if it is a giant thing, zeddii_sweden will start hurling crap over the wall at me.22:00
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paulg(well, maybe not from sweeden...)22:01
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paulgon a semi related note, it seems py3 gets generated with a crap PYTHONHOME default ; I had to symlink /usr/lib64  py3 into /usr/lib as a temp. workaround.22:04
paulgof course that needs a proper fix too.22:04
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paulgholy crap, I think I may have the builder building itself22:17
paulgit is at least passed parsing and is cleaning out the obsolete cruft from the sysroot.22:18
paulgneed to tidy up all the issue workarounds etc. but I think there is light at the end of the tunnel.22:20
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paulgCurrently 5 running tasks (1121 of 7463):22:21
paulggood a time as any to walk away and find food.22:21
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kergothRP: know of a good way to diagnose taskbase hash mismatches?23:09
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