Tuesday, 2017-05-09

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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #1141 of nightly-x86-64-lsb is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-x86-64-lsb/builds/114101:44
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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #1091 of nightly-ipk is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-ipk/builds/109103:59
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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #1105 of nightly-ppc-lsb is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-ppc-lsb/builds/110505:33
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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #1137 of nightly-multilib is complete: Failure [failed BuildImages_4 BuildImages_6 Running SDK Sanity Tests] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-multilib/builds/113706:24
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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #749 of nightly-arm64 is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-arm64/builds/74906:51
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pohlyRP: what's the right place to discuss "Yocto Compatible 2.0" - the Yocto mailing list or OE Architecture?07:47
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pohlyIt is related to Yocto, but the implications are more on OE...07:48
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ChrysDHi all ! Is it easy to upgrade a device by wifi which is under yocto ? Like changing the software to make it up to date .07:59
ChrysDThanks by advance !07:59
msvb-labInteresting, it seems adding meta-<file> paths to bblayers.conf does nothing unless recipes from those new layers are actually used in IMAGE_INSTALL or IMAGE_INSTALL_append definitions.08:00
msvb-labI was expecting to see new RPM packages in build/tmp/deploy/rpm after adding new layers.08:00
msvb-labI think I got that wrong?08:01
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: for a properly designed layer that should be true08:01
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: what should change if no configuration from it is pulled in and no recipe is being used?08:02
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msvb-labLetoThe2nd: The reason I'm asking relates to the use case where I want a small image file in build/deploy/images but a lot of RPM packages that I can optionally install in the image at runtime.08:03
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LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: thats all fine, but how ist that related to adding a layer? if you want rpm packages to be created, you have to tell bitbake to do so. either thtough some form of dependency, or explicitly.08:04
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LetoThe2nd(for the purpose of this discussion, i'd call 'bitbake world' explicit too)08:04
msvb-labLetoThe2nd: So you confirm that by only adding meta-<file> paths to bblayers.conf nothing new is built, and that if I want the extra packages I need to explicitly specify this to bitbake?08:05
msvb-labLetoThe2nd: I know how to do that by adding package names to IMAGE_INSTALL or IMAGE_INSTALL_append, but is there another way to 'explicitly specify' this without increasing the resulting image size?08:06
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: no, i said that for a properly designed layer, that if no recipe is used AND no configuration is pulled in, there should be no things built additionally. thats a huge difference.08:06
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msvb-labLetoThe2nd: So when I add a path to bblayers.conf, I'm not implicitly using new recipes (understood.) What do you mean by 'no configuration pulled in' though?08:08
msvb-labLetoThe2nd: Is there a IMAGE_NOINSTALL_append or something similar that you're referring to?08:08
msvb-labIMAGE_INSTALL_append = newrecipe08:08
msvb-lab...clearly causes newrecipe in the new layer to be built.08:09
msvb-labBut it increases the image size as well, which I'm trying to avoid.08:09
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: no, i'm referring to a .conf file being used. it should not be, but AFAIK nothing keeps layer.conf from doing dubios stuff, for example.08:09
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: sounds like you either need to specify everything explicitly, or create some kind of meta target that depends and therefore triggers your image AND the packages to be built.08:10
LetoThe2ndChrysD: there is no such thing built in, but a variety of options available. read up on meta-swupdate and/or mender.io, for example.08:11
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: or just do bitbake world ;-)08:12
ChrysDLetoThe2nd : Thanks08:12
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msvb-labLetoThe2nd: Right now I'm running bitbake <image-1> <image-2> which builds only the packages that these images-n depend on.08:13
msvb-labLetoThe2nd: So your approach makes sense.08:13
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: the explicit option would be running bitbake $image $package1 $package2 $package308:14
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: but i'm not entirely sure that depending on a image works. you'd have to try.08:14
msvb-labLetoThe2nd: I see, that's no good since I don't want to sift through the bb files to look for all the dozens of new recipes and write them on the command line.08:15
msvb-labLetoThe2nd: But I may try building world and see if the results are too much.08:15
msvb-labIf I run bitbake world, then all the RPM packages will be built, but no images generated (I guess?)08:15
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msvb-labAnd following that I can run my old bitbake <image-1> <image-2> command to get the slim images.08:16
msvb-labBest of both worlds it seems? Small images yet a ton of RPM packages available for post installation runtime integration.08:16
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: what you're describing is that you're creating a distribution.08:17
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LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: you can also look at what angstrom does, for example. its exactly their thing.08:18
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msvb-labLetoThe2nd: Yes, in fact. You can probably tell that I don't create many distributions.08:18
msvb-labSeems quite okay how bitbake decides what to build according to layers, recipes, and dependencies.08:19
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: kinda. i'd just suggest to look at what others are doing, probably their tooling can spare you reinventing everything. or maybe their solution already fits for you anyways. (plus, wind river certainly should have some experience there too, as you seem to be a customer(08:19
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msvb-labLetoThe2nd: I might look at Angstrom, thanks. Examining Wind River's github repository has limited value since the required information (about building world or custom package feeds for example) is not available.08:21
msvb-labRP: hello08:21
RPpohly: I'd say the arch list but its s tricky one08:21
msvb-labLetoThe2nd: Are there other pseudotargets like 'world' or a specific list that bitbake understands?08:22
msvb-lab...nevermind, this is probably in the manual (which I'm checking out.)08:22
pohlyRP: I'll send you my email draft and let you decide where I should post it.08:23
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RPpohly: ok, thanks. As you say, it has implications OE wide so I suspect arch will get the right set of people but I'll take a look08:24
msvb-labWhoops, nothing in the 3465 line bitbake manual explaining 'world' builds. I guess this is in another manual?08:25
RPmsvb-lab: world is a special target, there are only two bitbake understands that I can think of, world and universe08:26
msvb-labRP: Thanks, I'll look for information on either of these.08:27
RPpohly: oe-arch is fine08:28
msvb-labThe 'Yocto Project Mega-Manual' weighs 24650 lines, and has not even one occurance of 'universe.'08:28
RPpohly: I also have a better way to write that file (I think)08:28
pohlyRP: let me send the email and you can improve it in your response.08:29
msvb-labAnd the difference between 'world' and 'universe'? Obviously 'world' respects EXCLUDE_FROM_WORLD but I assume universe has it's own set of keyworlds?08:33
msvb-labTypo, 'keywords'.08:33
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RPpohly: replied...08:42
RPmsvb-lab: universe ignores the exclude from world list, that is the main difference08:42
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msvb-labI wonder if bitbake world on a distro like Wind River produces terabytes of object files?09:19
msvb-labJust building its images (and their dependencies) fills build/tmp to about 100GB.09:19
LetoThe2ndit certainly sums up.09:20
msvb-labLetoThe2nd: Not to mention the time duration increase when building world.09:20
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: well if you build more, you need more time.09:21
msvb-labMaybe I should ask the friendly Wind River people to run a world build for me and compare the storage and time difference.09:21
msvb-labI wish I still had access to a full rack build farm.09:22
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: i fail to see your point. earlier you said you basically want to create a distribution, and now you wonder that acutally doing that might need computing time and storage.09:22
msvb-labLetoThe2nd: I've built the distro already, using the method specified by Wind River. That costs 100BG and 15 hours.09:24
msvb-labBut changing to your idea of building world is what I want to do next, which might require a lot more (10x?) time and storage.09:24
msvb-labThe point is, it's senseless to start an expensive build if it's doomed to fail due to lack of resources.09:25
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: hey it is not my idea to build all kinds of funny packages in advance to just have them ready for runtime install if you ever might need them.09:25
LetoThe2ndin fact, i strongly discourage non-monolithic builds.09:25
LetoThe2ndi just told you a way to do what you asked for :)09:25
msvb-labLetoThe2nd: The priority lies in making this distro according to Wind River specs. Second priority is including small customizations (and this is finished.)09:26
msvb-labBut in order to avoid a full bitbake rebuild every time I see the need for a new package, I'd like to get it over with only once (by building world.)09:27
LetoThe2ndwhy would one need a "full bitbake rebuild" whenever one need a new package?09:27
msvb-labYou probably think I can leave the tmp dir there and just build a new package every once in a while when needed. That's not true, because I need to erase tmp in my limited system.09:28
LetoThe2ndit just builds whatever this package needs, given the assumption that the distribution is able to run it.09:28
msvb-labIf I need 'haskell' in 2 months, I won't have the tmp dir any more and will need to bitbake haskell (and all its dependencies.)09:29
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msvb-labBut that's not a full build. If I make a monolithic build including haskell, it's a 15 hour loss.09:29
T_UNIXso there's a project that uses SVN externals without specifying their precise revisions (i.e. always pointing to the neweset revision).09:29
LetoThe2ndi feel like the bad guy, but it sounds like you want *everything*, without spending the resources needed to archieve it.09:29
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T_UNIXHow can I tell bitbake to stfu and *not* use the cache (neither svn/ nor .tar) and force it to execute 'svn up'?09:30
msvb-labI want everything built once, and then store the results.09:30
LetoThe2nde.g. "i want a full custom distro repository including all possible packages, but am not willing to spend the computing time and storage to actually do it"09:30
msvb-labLetoThe2nd: I'm willing to spend the resources to build it but not if I need to buy a new computer.09:31
msvb-lab...so yes there are conditions.09:31
LetoThe2ndof course, if you have a c2d with 2gb ram and a 250gb harddrive, you can't do bitbake world. but then there's no point to the discussion anyways.09:31
msvb-labUnfortunately, my best guesses at how big the resource difference between bitbake <image> and bitbake world, is based on very limited yocto experience.09:31
msvb-labLetoThe2nd: I think my system can't build world, but your other idea of building a list of explicit packages is not bad if I can get a script to scrape out the recipes.09:34
msvb-labLetoThe2nd: Have you built a lot of distros, or do you use yocto for other reasons?09:36
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: i don't use yocto :-P09:36
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: i do use OE and bits from the poky reference distribution however. but what would i do with it if not build custom distributions?09:37
LetoThe2nd(read that as: i fail to see the point of the question)09:37
msvb-labLetoThe2nd: I'm assuming yocto is useful in broader make(1) or cmake(1) type situations. Like building a single LXC container is not really a distro.09:38
msvb-labThe point of the question is to satisfy curiosity and confirm that yocto is useful for other purposes rather than building distros.09:39
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: i guess you are referring bitbake, not yocto. and no, bitbake is not an alternative to make or cmake. plus, building a container is actually building a custom distribution, albeit with a fixed kernel ABI.09:39
LetoThe2ndand yes, i have actually done that, and more, i'm certainly not the only one.09:40
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msvb-labIsn't bitbake one component under the yocto umbrella? Should I rather say 'use bitbake for ... reasons'?09:42
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LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: well at least i personally prefer a concise wording. because most people say "i use yocto" when they actually mean "i use poky". some mean "i use OE", and some others mean "i use bitbake"09:45
msvb-lab...and others mean 'I use toaster'?09:46
msvb-labThat's pretty wobbly.09:46
msvb-labI'm trying to use the correct terms.09:46
LetoThe2ndthats why i never say "i use yocto", except in quotation marks for discussion purposes.09:47
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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #1123 of nightly-world is complete: Failure [failed BuildImages] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-world/builds/112309:53
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JoiFI know it's really far-fetched, but this discussion reminds me of the question: "Which one is better, AC or DC?" (as in alternating- vs. direct-current)10:20
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ChrysDWhat's the purpose of using Quilt/git am ? Isn't it better to have a .bbappend with a .patch file ? Thanks =)10:34
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msvb-labI've got in a file 'meta-openembedded/meta-intel-iot-middleware/recipes-connectivity/mosquitto/mosquitto_1.4.10.bb':10:46
msvb-labPACKAGES += "libmosquitto1 libmosquittopp1 ${PN}-clients ${PN}-python10:46
msvb-lab...and I'm succesfully building: $ bitbake mosquitto-clients10:47
msvb-labBut if I run $ bitbake mosquitto-python10:47
msvb-labI get: ERROR: Nothing PROVIDES 'mosquitto-python'.10:47
msvb-labBizarre. Doesn't $PN resolve to 'package name' or 'mosquitto' in this case?10:48
msvb-labAnd doesn't $PACKAGES refer to what a recipe provides for use on the bitbake(1) command line?10:48
msvb-labThe laer in question is https://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit/cgit.cgi/meta-intel-iot-middleware/10:49
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CTtpollardPN does resolve to the package name by default10:58
msvb-labSo the line in a .bb file: PACKAGES += ${PN}-python expands to: PACKAGES += mosquitto-python11:03
msvb-lab...and should not produce an error when building $ bitbake mosquitto-python11:04
msvb-labI've looked around for reasons but not found any. There's a second set of mosquitto recipes in my configuration but they are nearly identical.11:04
msvb-labThat's why I write 'bizarre.'11:04
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joshuaglPACKAGES is the generated output, you don't bitbake a package you bitbake a recipe and that might create one or more packages11:20
joshuagloh, msvb-lab is gone11:21
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msvb-labCTpollard: Sorry in case I missed any replies after 'bizarre.' My connection dropped.12:09
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rburtonmsvb-lab: you bitbake recipes, not packages12:14
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msvb-labrburton: Okay, what is the indicator for the recipe name? Is it the filename minus version, like 'mosquitto_1.4.10.bb' would indicate a recipe 'mosquitto'?12:16
msvb-labI'm confused about this, because $ bitbake mosquitto-clients really builds a RPM package called 'mosquitto-clients*.rpm', but there is no file called 'mosquitto-clients*.bb'12:17
rburtonthen the recipe probaby has PROVIDES=mosquitto-clients to make that work12:18
msvb-labrburton: That's why I write 'bizarre.' There is no other incidence of '-clients' in the mosquitto_1.4.10.bb file other than the line starting with 'PACKAGES'. I've also checked for an include <*.inc> and nothing found. The file in question has no 'PROVIDES' keyword at all.12:21
msvb-lab...but yet bitbake mosquitto-clients succeeds.12:22
msvb-labrburton: So are you sure that the 'PACKAGES += mosquitto-clients' doesn't get parsed by bitbake as providing a target?12:23
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msvb-labThere's also: ^FILES_${PN}-clients = "${bindir}/mosquitto_pub12:24
msvb-lab...which surely isn't interpreted as a recipe target though.12:24
msvb-labMaybe PACKAGE definitions are implicitly considered valid bitbake targets only when they install files (see the FILES_${PN}-clients line.)12:26
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msvb-labOops, the mosquitto-python PACKAGE definition also has a similar FILES_ line.12:27
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msvb-labI guess there might be some sort of 'DONT_BUILD_MOSQUITTO_PYTHON' set to 'yes' in some other file that bitbake parses, but if so it's a wild goose chase to find it.12:29
rburtonmsvb-lab: without having your layers i can't help, but bitbake takes recipe names (or follows preferred providers to find an alternative)12:29
rburtonie bitbake virtual/kernel will build linux-intel.bb for me12:30
msvb-labrburton: Okay fair enough. It's a sorting out the dependencies and definitions task, rather than an error.12:31
msvb-labrburton: I'll keep working on it, but thanks for the ideas.12:31
rburtonso what's the problem now?12:31
msvb-labrburton: I want to build a mosquitto-python package but can't do it.12:33
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msvb-labThat's the problem.12:33
msvb-labAt least I assume from the line 'PACKAGES += ... mosquitto-python' that I'm supposed to be able to build a package of that name using bitbake?12:34
msvb-labMy guess is that there's a missing provides or I'm failing to configure something (local.conf?) properly.12:34
msvb-labSome packages allow for options, like 'build all perl modules' or 'dont build python modules' so one possibility is I'm not providing an option that gets implicitly parsed by bitbake.12:36
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joshuaglwhat recipe includes the PACKAGES += ... mosquitto-python line?12:48
joshuaglbitbake that12:48
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msvb-labjoshuagl: The PACKAGES line is in 'mosquitto_1.4.10.bb' found in https://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit/cgit.cgi/meta-intel-iot-middleware/tree/recipes-connectivity/mosquitto12:50
joshuaglmsvb-lab: and if you bitbake mosquitto there isn't a mosquitto-python package?12:51
msvb-labjoshuagl: And yes, I've tried bitbake mosquitto. That produces a bunch of RPM packages, but not mosquitto-python.12:51
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msvb-labInstead, I get: find tmp/deploy/ -name '*osquitto*rpm' ... everything defined on the line 'PACKAGES' except for mosquitto-python.12:53
msvb-labThere are no errors when building, either.12:53
msvb-labTo be honest, it's not a showstopper so I guess it's safe to ignore this.12:53
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msvb-labQuite bizarre though.12:53
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joshuaglI'm replicating here and tmp/work/core2-64-poky-linux/mosquitto/1.4.10-r0/packages-split/mosquitto-python/ is empty12:56
joshuaglwe don't create empty packages12:56
msvb-labjoshuagl: I think I saw that, so you mean it's at the package level?12:57
joshuaglin my case that's because my Python is python3 and the site-packages directory is /usr/lib/python3.5/site-packages12:58
joshuaglthe recipe is wrong, the location in FILES_${PN}-python doesn't exist12:58
joshuaglat least for me12:59
joshuaglwith a system using python312:59
msvb-labjoshuagl: Hmm, so if a dependency to python2 fails, then the package is silently not built.12:59
msvb-labLike a soft depenency I guess.12:59
msvb-labThere are probably other reasons that packages don't get build from spec, but are part of a bb 'PACKAGES' definition still.12:59
joshuaglare you still using newer oe-core with older layers from wr-core?13:00
msvb-labjoshuagl: Unfortunately there is a small number (2) of Wind River layers that I swapped for newer ones.13:01
msvb-labI was having the mosquitto-python problem when I had only swapped one layer out (meta-cloud-services.)13:01
joshuaglhmm, OK. The reason I ask is that meta-intel-iot-middleware appears not to be updated for latest OE-Core13:02
msvb-labOnce this number gets past one or two, it would make sense to abandon and go with jwessel's all master Pulsar8 build, but an all master cutting edge build sounds much less stable to me.13:03
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msvb-labjoshuagl: I agree, there are things in the meta-intel-iot-middleware layer (like xdk-daemon) which are woefully out of date and fail to build due to old dependencies.13:03
msvb-labHowever, the mosquitto that they specify is relatively fresh. At least newer than the one from 'meta-gateway'.13:04
msvb-labI think meta-gateway is a Wind River maintained layer?13:04
joshuaglmy experience is that all master would be more stable than a frankenstein that uses different versions of layers. Layers are often closely aligned to a release of oe-core, many layers will need work to function correctly with master/pyro13:05
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msvb-labjoshuagl: I'm starting to believe that, the hard way. I really wanted to stick to the well tested Pulsar8 branch.13:08
msvb-labIf it weren't for rabbitmq (a single package) I could stay with the Pulsar8 branch.13:08
msvb-labOn the other hand, things are moving along quite well with the frankenstein as long as I ditch mosquitto-python.13:10
joshuaglprobably easier just to write your own rabbitmq for pulsar813:10
msvb-lab...since its only a frankenstein junior with 2 of 33 layers upgraded.13:10
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msvb-labjushuagl: It's true that a single package (rabbitmq in this case) doesn't excuse layer swaps.13:11
msvb-lab...but anyone who knows rabbitmq has spent hours with erlang libraries because it's a dependency monster.13:11
msvb-labSo it doesn't fit the typical answer to roll a new package or make a new recipe, I wanted to reuse.13:12
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jwesselIs it the case that rabbitmq has some wild amount of dependencies?13:25
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caiortpit's common have some problems with centOS ?13:35
msvb-labjwessel: I can't remember exactly what cost the most time, but rabbitmq has a plugin structure, composes several protocols, and depends on erlang.13:37
caiortpUsing ubuntu I was compiling the libimxvpuapi (meta-freescale) normally, using CentOS I have problem with QA Issues13:37
caiortpWARNING: QA Issue: libimxvpuapi: Files/directories were installed but not shipped /usr/lib6413:37
caiortpI'm using yocto dizzy13:37
msvb-labIt's the last one (erlang) that I think takes a long time to build and often fails along the way.13:37
rburtoncaiortp: dizzy is super old, just so you know.  ask freescale about your problems though.13:37
msvb-labjwessel: Even worse is IoTivity, but that's a neat meta-oic recipe that's well behaved and well maintained.13:38
rburton(dizzy was released in october 2014)13:38
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caiortprburton, yes , we freeze our dev in this version.13:38
msvb-labUsing bitbake to build IoTivity is a very refreshing departure from typical scons/boost/evenmore buildconf.13:39
caiortpbut ok13:39
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gizeroHi! Any clue what can have happened here? https://pastebin.com/wN8VYV9y This comes from a fresh install of a eSDK (built with current master) where I run 'devtool modify <anything>'. The specific output is for openssh recipe, but I get the same for any recipe I tried. This is from a project of mine: haven't had the time to try with poky alone, but hopefully anyone here can shed me some light...13:48
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hamdyaeaHi, i need to invert the move a my mouse on my yocto image. I mean, When I move  to the right I need that the mouse move the the left etc.. like a mirror. Someone know wich file I have to modify ?14:06
rburtonhamdyaea: just the mouse and not the entire display?14:06
hamdyaeanot the entire display14:07
hamdyaeait's because I am working a touchscreen usb screen14:07
hamdyaeaand the calibration is wrong14:07
rburtonrecalibrate it then14:07
rburtonthat's the fix14:07
hamdyaearburton, : I need to invert it14:07
hamdyaearburton, : There is a calibration tool only for windows14:07
LetoThe2ndtscalibrate will happily invert it through calibration.14:08
rburtonif you're really lucky the standard X calibration stuff will just work14:08
LetoThe2ndah, usb crap.14:08
msvb-labhamdyaea: Wouldn't there be something in X11.conf or similar that allows for mirror and such?14:08
hamdyaeaI am looking in /etc/X11/14:08
rburtonrun xinput-calibrator14:08
CTtpollardor weston.ini if you're using weston14:08
hamdyaeaok i look14:08
msvb-labIs bitbake smart enough to rebuild a whole layer's recipes if I 'mv layer layer-old && mv /tmp/layer-new layer' and then rebuild with the same bitbake command line?14:11
-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #846 of nightly-world-lsb is complete: Failure [failed BuildImages] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-world-lsb/builds/84614:11
msvb-labOr do I need to invalidate object files and RPM packages by do_clean manually?14:11
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: if it doesn't affect MACHINE and DISTRO, you hopefully should be fine.14:12
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msvb-labLetoThe2nd: I'm hoping, so thanks for the optimism. Seems to me that even if bitbake keeps caches that it would read the new bb filenames at least and notice some are different than the recipes that got cached.14:15
LetoThe2ndmsvb-lab: technically i would call it a bug if you run into problems. but tracking down sstate related ones is often painful14:16
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pohlyrburton, RP: what is the Python search path? A .bbclass in my $TOPDIR/classes is found, but the corresponding .py in $TOPDIR/lib is not.14:19
RPpohly: good question. There is magic in base.bbclass relating to that14:19
RPpohly: bbclass is easy to answer and comes from BBPATH14:20
pohlyThis is for a selftest which needs to set up a build dir with an additional .bbclass that gets INHERITed via local.conf.14:20
RPpohly: BBPATH != python search path14:20
kergothpohly: if you're replacing a .py in a python package, rather than adding new, you need to copy the __init__.py from the main package into the corresponding path, so python can find the module vai the namespace package14:20
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T_UNIXis there a way to explicitly require a specific version? I.e. not a "preferred version" ?14:37
T_UNIXhttps://lists.yoctoproject.org/pipermail/yocto/2013-August/015429.html only covers later package install it seems.14:40
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Smitty__I'm confused about the requirement to target QEMU instead of the a real architecture like Intel 64 bit.14:42
Smitty__If I build a image targeting INtel 64 bit, shouldn't I be able to run it on a Windows hosting a Qemu session14:42
LetoThe2ndSmitty__: thats orthogonal. architecture is not the target machine, but only a part of it.14:43
LetoThe2nd*partially orthogonal14:43
LetoThe2ndand especially in the qemu case, it is really orthogonal :-P14:43
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Smitty__I don't understand what you are trying to say.14:44
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LetoThe2ndSmitty__: that targetting qemu does not imply an architecture. qemu could also be arm, mips, powerpc...14:45
Smitty__OK, let me rephrase the question.14:45
Smitty__What is the purpose of targetting a virtualized environment ?14:46
Smitty__That seems to defeat the purpose of the virtualization14:46
Smitty__The whole point is to target the intended environment, then run inside a virtualized system that reproduces that enviroment14:47
Smitty__Is it not ?14:47
ChrysDSmitty__ : How can you virtualize architecture ?14:47
LetoThe2ndSmitty__: nope. you are targetting a specific machine. which is just what qemu also does: it emulates specific machine types.14:47
LetoThe2ndSmitty__: you are generalizing the fact that in the specific x86 case, a lot of the machine itself is abstracted away by the bios and a lot of HW detection14:48
Smitty__OK, so why would I specify MACHINE ?= "qemux86-64" instead of MACHINE ??= "intel-corei7-64" ?14:48
Smitty__I don't understand why I would need to specify that I am going to run in a virtualized enviroment.14:49
LetoThe2ndSmitty__: in the case that you want a kernel that actually can boot on qemu using the supported peripherals. its true that for x86, there probably is not that much of a difference.14:49
zeddii_homethere is, since using the same device drivers under virtualization is just not wise.14:50
zeddii_homevirtio is much more efficient14:50
LetoThe2ndSmitty__: what if your qemu is set to a simpler instruction set, like c2d, or even i686 equivalents?14:50
LetoThe2ndzeddii_home: agreed.14:50
zeddii_homenot to mention, why build modules and configs for all the different north/south bridges, etc.  Any h/w targetted machine should have optimizations in place, which are not useful on qemu, etc.14:51
LetoThe2ndSmitty__: you really have to free your mind from the specific x86+vritualization case.14:51
Smitty__So, should I expect to encounter problems if I try to run intel-corei7-64 under QEMU running on a Intel Windows host ?14:51
zeddii_homehaving tried to maintain and boot h/w BSPs on qemu, I am of the opposite opinion. what do you expect to get from the BSP in virtualization. nothing. So just go with something that is targetted to the env.14:51
zeddii_homebecause it’ll be looking for an e1000, as an example.14:52
zeddii_homeand if you let qemu emulation that, it is horrid and slow.14:52
Smitty__But, then I am not really testing anything sensible, am I ?14:52
zeddii_homeyou aren’t testing the BSP sensibly under qemu either.14:52
LetoThe2ndSmitty__: in emulation, you do not test real hardware. surprise, surprise.14:52
LetoThe2ndin emulation, you can test algorithms.14:52
Smitty__I'm testing the behaviour under an environment that doesn't even pretend to be the target environment14:53
LetoThe2ndSmitty__: well set up your emulation to be like your target environment. its jsut that qemu does not fully emulate all possible platforms and combinations.14:53
Smitty__Light Bulb !!!14:54
LetoThe2ndso if you complain about qemu not looking like your target environment, its up to you to change its looks.14:54
ChrysDFor me qemu do the job for testing kernel stability and rootfs, not less not more. I don't imagine how it is possible by software from computer to emulate an entire architecture with hardware emulation. Maybe I'm wrong.14:55
zeddii_homeyou need something with a different purpose than qemu, that is for sure. like simics, etc.14:55
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Smitty__OK, I guess it's a question of what I am actually testing then.  I guess it's obvious that I can't expect to test any weird device drivers that aren't supported by QEMU, but, ........pondering the point of my current project14:56
LetoThe2ndexactly. thats why i keep repeating it: free your mind from the x86-specific virtualization case. qemu emulates a very specific *MACHINE*, not an *ARCHITECTURE*14:56
ChrysDWhy would you want a software that emulate the netire software instead of directly testing it to the board ?14:57
Smitty__Good point - I'll ask my Project Manager that one14:57
zeddii_homepre-production boards, expensive boards, etc.14:57
LetoThe2ndChrysD: oh theres a lot of such cases. hw being expenise, not available already, etc.14:57
ChrysDLetoThe2nd : Yeah but you can't expect a virtualization to fit to the hardware of a board.14:58
zeddii_homefor me, qemu is for testing arch-generic parts of the kernel, and userspace. and obviously for running in the cloud, i.e. OpenStack.14:58
zeddii_homeWith simics you can.14:58
zeddii_homenot qemu.14:58
zeddii_homeand there are others, I’m just familiar with simics.14:58
zeddii_home“this is not a paid advertisement” :D14:58
LetoThe2ndChrysD: *sigh* you can, given enough effort and the right emulation. it just doesn not apply for qemu in the most cases.14:58
kergothif you need to test drivers, you probably want a proper simulator, but those aren't cheap14:59
* kergoth yawns14:59
LetoThe2ndemulation does also not necessarily mean software only. it could also be an fpga loaded with a specific core.14:59
* LetoThe2nd tries to throw little balls of paper into kergoths yawning </SCNR>14:59
ChrysDLetoThe2nd : But it's strange to have full system simulator when it's very hard to have a good electronics circuit simulator...15:00
LetoThe2ndChrysD: it always depends on your resources and problem to be solved.15:00
LetoThe2ndkergoth: :-D15:00
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* kergoth has fond^Wterrible memories of dealing with simulation before we had actual hardware when working at TI15:01
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LetoThe2ndkergoth: when it comes to stuff like that, i'm usually happy that i'm a long way down the food chain. but we're waiting for prototype board too etc.15:02
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ChrysDLetoThe2nd : I guess you need a powerfull computer to run on full system simulator15:05
LetoThe2ndChrysD: it *depends*15:05
ChrysDLetoThe2nd : Yeah it depends... if it is a headless device for example.15:06
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ChrysDLetoThe2nd : But I can't expect from my actual computer to simulate an entire system including the GPU board for generation of images ahah15:07
LetoThe2ndChrysD: no, you're also thinking waaaaay to desktop like. you're assuming emulation speed being close to the speed of the target system. but who says that emulation cannot be precise and slow?15:07
ChrysDLetoThe2nd : When the computer itself have difficulty to get 60fps for some rendering.15:07
ChrysDLetoThe2nd : Yeah , as you say, *depends* of what you want to test.15:08
LetoThe2ndor on the other hand, who says that your target cannot be very small? like, an arm m0?15:09
ChrysDLetoThe2nd : It *depends*15:09
ChrysDLetoThe2nd : =D15:09
kergothRP, rburton: are patches being accepted for 2.4 on master yet, or has it not yet diverged from pyro? If the latter, is there an estimated date?15:09
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rburtonkergoth: very soon.  i've been doing test builds so we'll be merging stuff this week.15:12
kergothcool, thanks15:13
RPkergoth: right, its imminent. Just been putting it off a bit for a bit of a rest ;-)15:13
kergothi don't blame you :)15:14
kergothjust checking status15:14
Smitty__OK, So, when I grab a generic linux like Fedora Intel 64 bit - for example - and run it inside VMWare, it just works.  But, If I create a Yocto Image targeting Intel 64, VMWare refuses to load it..   Why would that be15:14
LetoThe2ndSmitty__: "i create a yocto image."15:15
LetoThe2ndSmitty__: and certainly have booted poky-based iso images in vortualbox without hassles.15:15
Smitty__Yeah, well, I just inheretied this project15:15
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Smitty__OK, I guess I have a lot of work to do15:16
LetoThe2ndSmitty__: i'm just trying to tell you that if you say "i created a yocto image", then nobody knows what you mean. guesses are that is poky based. but it does not mention image type and things like that, which are crucial for actually booting stuff.15:17
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ChrysDSmitty__ : You're not the only one. But from my understanding, when you put machine, you target to make it running to a specific machine. But the machine inself can run in other architecture. That's why QEMU. LetoThe2nd right ?15:17
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LetoThe2ndtime to call it a day. cya15:30
msvb-labLetoThe2nd: Thanks again, bye.15:42
-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #451 of nightly-musl is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-musl/builds/45115:46
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msvb-labIn every bitbake <image> build I do (for Wind River Pulsar8) I get this warning:16:00
msvb-labNOTE: consider defining a PREFERRED_PROVIDER entry to match java2-runtime16:01
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msvb-lab...although my build-intel-x86/conf/local.conf has:16:01
msvb-labPREFERRED_PROVIDER_java2-runtime = "openjdk-8"16:01
msvb-labIt's the only PREFERRED_PROVIDER warning message I can't get rid of.16:02
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-YoctoAutoBuilder- build #1124 of nightly-world is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-world/builds/112416:08
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msvb-labIt seems bitbake -c clean is an alias for do_clean?16:36
rburtonmsvb-lab: -c is "run this task"16:36
rburtonso -c clean is "run do_clean"16:36
msvb-labrburton: I'm trying to figure out if either of bitbake -c (clean|doclean) is the more correct syntax.16:37
msvb-labAfter testing, it seems to me that either work?16:37
rburtonclean is preferrd16:38
msvb-labI mean (clean|do_clean).16:38
rburtonbitbake will add do_ for you16:38
msvb-labOkay, then I'll use 'clean' from now on (and the same with other commands, stripping 'do_' from them.)16:38
msvb-labThanks. Looks like I really need realclean instead though, hmm.16:38
rburtonwhat would that do16:39
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msvb-labNormally realclean erases not only object files but the targets too. Disclean goes yet a step further and removes automake things.16:40
msvb-labThose meanings are valid for GNU autotools behaviour at least, not sure about bitbake.16:40
rburtonrealclean isn't a automakeism16:41
rburtonanyway, clean removes the entire build tree16:41
rburtonbut its only useful if the previous build was incomplete as bitbake will just pull the completed build from sstate if you bitbake it after a clean16:41
msvb-labOops, I meant 'cleanall' instead of 'realclean'.16:42
rburtonautomake is clean (remove all build things), distclean (clean plus anything that is 'dist'), maintainerclean (distclean plus random stuff the maintainer said to clean)16:42
rburtonbitbake cleanall is overkill, it removes downloaded tarballs too16:42
rburtonso unless you enjoy downloading sources, don't use it16:43
msvb-labThe reason I think I need more than 'clean' is that after bitbake -c clean <r1> and bitbake <r1> it doesn't get rebuilt. Probably due to the sstate, thanks for the tip.16:43
rburtonbitbake foo -C unpack16:43
rburton"build foo and mark unpack as needing to happen again"16:43
rburtonif unpack if forced to run then patch has to run, then configure, then compile ...16:43
msvb-labrburton: Oh, nice. That's what I need in addition to clean then (-C unpack also)16:44
rburtonno need to clean too16:44
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rburtonwell actually there was a small bug for a bit, so you might be safer doing a clean first if you're not using something very recent16:44
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msvb-labI had already given -c clean. Cool, it's working. Thanks.16:46
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Abd3what is yocto ?16:47
kergothas mentioned in the subject of the channel16:48
Abd3thank you16:48
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msvb-labThat was fast.16:49
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khemwell yocto is 10^24 in metric system17:03
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RPkhem: 10^-2417:04
RPsmall difference17:04
khemah yes17:04
khemplanck is smallest mesaurable 10^-3417:04
khemand I guess second smallest is yocto17:04
khemso we left some room for improvment there17:04
RPkhem: planck project doesn't have the same ring :)17:05
khemah there we go :)17:05
RPkhem: even at 10^-34, its all about the uncertainty in the measurement :)17:05
JaMaexit off17:06
khempretty much same problems like non-deterministic builds17:06
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khemI guess Martin got annoyed :)17:06
RPkhem: was just wondering about the connection :)17:06
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khemRP: I mentioned about proposal to harden toolchain in 2.4 timeframe. Are you still interested17:09
RPkhem: yes, definitely interested17:09
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khemin this day and age I think PIC/PIE should be a good compromise for getting some secure code17:10
RPkhem: does that have performance implications?17:10
khemPIC/PIE in general does have some17:11
khembut we are already using PIC so its not a big difference that PIE is going to bring17:12
RPkhem: It does sound like doing this at the compiler level would be better than the current include file though17:12
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khemin the end we might make it a distro feature17:12
RPkhem: that was what I was just wondering17:13
khemand decide if it should be default or not17:13
khembut I think it should become default otherwise it wont fly since there will be issues at hand to fix17:13
khembut debian has waded some winds already17:14
khemso there wont be all on us17:14
RPkhem: If it replaces the .inc, we can at least use it for poky-lsb which is how we stop that regressing today17:14
khemI see, thats a good option17:15
khemor rename poky-lsb to poky-secure :)17:15
khemand you will have many users for it suddenly17:15
RPkhem: with the changes to lsb, we need to rethink what that is doing but it can remain as a place to test this17:15
RPkhem: Haven't fully figured out what it becomes yet17:16
khemyeah lsb is interesting dont know if it has lived upto its promise though17:16
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denixhmm, both python-nose and python3-nose provide /usr/bin/nosetests, which breaks when both python versions are being installed on target19:00
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kergothshould see how it's handled in debian. probably with 2/3 suffixes19:01
denixhttps://packages.debian.org/jessie/all/python3-nose/filelist - /usr/bin/nosetests319:05
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khemyeah nosetests2 and nosetests319:47
khemwould be the way to go where nosetests is a symlink to py2 version19:47
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GoatFounDeRHi all, I have a small problem with my small application and eclipse with the plugin installed. When I try and compile my program it seems like it fails with SDL20:33
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GoatFounDeRI suspect that this is to do with linking as I can locate the headers, and the libSDL is in my ADT. is there something I am missing including the library?20:34
GoatFounDeR"undefined reference to `SDL_FillRect'display_class.cpp/cm-ipbx-fw/srcline 341C/C++ Problem" is the type of error I'm getting20:37
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