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| khem | kergoth: is shallow clone support in core now ? | 02:41 |
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| kergoth | khem: yes, though i still need to email scott to get it added to the docs | 02:42 |
| kergoth | to be clear, shallow mirror *tarball* support is in, shallow *clones* aren't viable due to limiations of the git remote protocols | 02:42 |
| khem | kergoth: ok superb, | 02:43 |
| khem | how can I use it ? | 02:43 |
| khem | I want to add it to gcc recipes | 02:43 |
| kergoth | https://github.com/openembedded/bitbake/commits/master, scroll down to 'Commits on May 26, 2017' | 02:44 |
| kergoth | 'fetch/git: add support for shallow mirror tarballs' describes basic usage, the commits after it which add further enhancements to that describe how to set the vars that control those | 02:44 |
| khem | ok thanks | 02:46 |
| khem | so it can be done per recipe too I suppose | 02:46 |
| khem | BB_GIT_SHALLOW = "1" and BB_GENERATE_SHALLOW_TARBALLS = "1" | 02:46 |
| khem | is what I need to add along with git uri | 02:46 |
| kergoth | as the first commit says, BB_GENERATE_SHALLOW_TARBALLS already defaults to 1 if BB_GIT_SHALLOW and BB_GENERATE_MIRROR_TARBALLS are enabled | 02:47 |
| kergoth | but yep, then when you fetch next, it'll emit a gitshallow_ tarball in DL_DIR. deploy that to your mirror of choice and that'll be fetched and used instead of the full tarball | 02:47 |
| khem | that comment is bit confusing | 02:47 |
| kergoth | i don't see what's confusing about it | 02:47 |
| khem | # This defaults to enabled if both BB_GIT_SHALLOW and | 02:48 |
| khem | # BB_GENERATE_MIRROR_TARBALLS are enabled | 02:48 |
| khem | BB_GENERATE_SHALLOW_TARBALLS ?= "1" | 02:48 |
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| kergoth | as it says ,if you have BB_GIT_SHALLOW and BB_GENERATE_MIRROR_TARBALLS enabled, then shallow tarball generation defaults to enabled | 02:48 |
| khem | perhaps it should be BB_GIT_SHALLOW ? | 02:48 |
| kergoth | if not, then not | 02:48 |
| kergoth | i don't undersatndt he question | 02:49 |
| kergoth | there are 3 variables mentioned here, BB_GIT_SHALLOW, BB_GENERATE_MIRROR_TARBALLS, and BB_GENERATE_SHALLOW_TARBALLS. the 3rd defaults to enabled if the other two are enabled, otherwise it defaults to disabled | 02:49 |
| kergoth | i don't see how to explain it any clearer than that | 02:49 |
| khem | ok what I read is that 2 variables BB_GENERATE_MIRROR_TARBALLS | 02:49 |
| khem | and BB_GIT_SHALLOW if enabled then BB_GENERATE_MIRROR_TARBALLS is enabled by default | 02:49 |
| khem | which seems to be obvious | 02:50 |
| kergoth | no, it's not | 02:50 |
| kergoth | because they're mutually xclusive | 02:50 |
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| kergoth | if a shallow tarball is being generated, a full tarball is not | 02:50 |
| kergoth | and BB_GIT_SHALLOW controls both the default behavior of tarball creation *and* whether we *fetch* shallow tarballs | 02:51 |
| kergoth | if you want to fetch them but not generate them, that's where the mirror tarball variables are useful | 02:51 |
| khem | oh I mistook MIRROR for SHALLOW | 02:51 |
| khem | hrmm | 02:51 |
| kergoth | unless you have very specific requirements, its unlikely you'll ever need to set BB_GENERATE_SHALLOW_TARBALLS, as it defaults to enabled if the other 2 are in use, which they usually are when populating a mirror | 02:52 |
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| khem | yeah it makes sense | 02:52 |
| kergoth | i've used it from tiem to time when i need to generate full tarballs regardless of whether i'm fetching and using shallow ones or not | 02:52 |
| khem | I was reading BB_GENERATE_MIRROR_TARBALLS and BB_GENERATE_SHALLOW_TARBALLS | 02:52 |
| khem | same | 02:52 |
| kergoth | ah | 02:52 |
| kergoth | i'm open to any suggestions on improving usability, as far as i know mentor is the only one that's done anything with this, so the more the merrier | 02:53 |
| khem | if I just set BB_GIT_SHALLOW = "1" | 02:53 |
| khem | then does it set some defaults for BB_GIT_SHALLOW_DEPTH | 02:54 |
| kergoth | yes, good point, i think i forgot to mention that in the commit message | 02:55 |
| kergoth | it defaults to a depth of 1 if BB_GIT_SHALLOW_DEPTH is None / unset | 02:55 |
| khem | ok cool | 02:55 |
| kergoth | if you set it to 0 or the empty string, it'll disable it | 02:55 |
| kergoth | which sounds redundant, why not just change BB_GIT_SHALLOW for that case, but it's mainly to support cases where multiple names/branches are in use | 02:55 |
| kergoth | so you can enable it as a whole, set the default depth to 0, then set just one branch to 1, or whatever | 02:56 |
| kergoth | Hmm, I have an idea for meta-sourcery/meta-external-toolchain.. rather than manually maintaining the FILES variables, use a task in the internal toolchain recipes to write out files lists and use them in the external toolchain build. could check those files into the external toolchain layer, just wouldn't have to maintain them manually for i.e. glibc | 02:57 |
| khem | —depth 1 means it will only have history of last 1 rev ? | 02:58 |
| kergoth | yeah. iirc epth of 1 == just keep the top commits. so it's the total number of commits including srcrev, not just how much history there is, hence 0 being equivalent to disabled | 02:59 |
| kergoth | s/commits/commit/ | 02:59 |
| khem | yeah i see, and then I can easily do local commits on top and push to origin branch | 03:00 |
| khem | gcc clone —depth 1 took 9.22s user 1.74s system | 03:02 |
| khem | wow | 03:02 |
| khem | $ du -sh . (06-19 20:02) | 03:03 |
| khem | 780M . | 03:03 |
| kergoth | i wish we could use shallow clones rather than just using shallow tarballs, but at least it saves time for future builds from the rmirror, just not for the person having to populate the mirror | 03:03 |
| kergoth | the shallow tarball won't be used if you have a local clone, it prefers the real thing to a shallow version, so keep that in mind if you're looking to test it | 03:03 |
| khem | so if I dont maitain a mirror with shallow tarballs | 03:04 |
| khem | then it will do normal clone and create local tarballs which will be shallow right ? | 03:04 |
| kergoth | yep | 03:04 |
| khem | but if I create a local mirror then it will get the shallow tarballs | 03:04 |
| khem | provided I use the above vars | 03:05 |
| kergoth | yeah | 03:05 |
| khem | ok | 03:05 |
| kergoth | the problem with a shallow clone is it alwyas goes by depth from HEAD, and we ahve no idea how manyc ommits we need from branch HEAD to get to our SRCREV | 03:05 |
| khem | even if there is no mirrors local rebuilds will be quicker I suppose | 03:05 |
| kergoth | we could support it for AUTOREV recipes, though | 03:06 |
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| kergoth | local rebuilds is debatable, since local full clones are pretty fast too due to hard linking | 03:11 |
| kergoth | depends on what you have | 03:11 |
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| Duffy | Hi, I'm trying to build my own dts-file but when I'm trying to compile it via bitbake it says systax error. I couldn't find a good explanation on how to do them and every site on the internet does them slighty different. So maybe just that different enough so that the compiler wouldnt recognize it. So does anyone maybe have an example for a dts for one pin only? | 08:36 |
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| uaelinux | hello | 09:34 |
| uaelinux | does yocto support macosx? | 09:34 |
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| jku | uaelinux: no | 09:42 |
| uaelinux | any plans for support? or porting to it? | 09:43 |
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| jku | uaelinux: not really. There have been a few discussions on mailing list but no commitment. There were some non-trivial details IIRC | 09:45 |
| uaelinux | ty jku | 09:46 |
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| diego_r | what about Haiku OS, ReactOS and Plan9? :-) | 09:50 |
| rburton | uaelinux: there is CROPS, a neat way to run yocto inside a linux docker on mac | 09:50 |
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| CTtpollard | uaelinux: AGL provide a docker container iirc | 09:51 |
| uaelinux | yes CTpollard | 09:51 |
| uaelinux | let me then try docker | 09:51 |
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| diego_r | uaelinux: https://events.linuxfoundation.org/sites/events/files/slides/2017%20ELC%20-%20Yocto%20Project%20Containers.pdf | 09:54 |
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| diego_r | uaelinux: https://youtu.be/JXHLAWveh7Y | 09:54 |
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| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #550 of nightly-checkuri is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-checkuri/builds/550 | 10:28 | |
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| Ramose | Facing this error | *** Libhogweed (nettle's companion library) was not found. Note that you must compile nettle with gmp support. while bibake gnutls_3.5.3.bb | 12:43 |
| bluelightning | Ramose: are you using -b ? | 12:44 |
| Ramose | sorry with bitbake ? | 12:45 |
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| Ramose | bluelightning: did n't get what you mean by -b ? | 12:50 |
| bluelightning | Ramose: yes, I mean are you using bitbake's -b option | 12:50 |
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| Ramose | bluelightning: No , I am just simply doing bitbake -c configure gnutls | 12:53 |
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| bluelightning | Ramose: which branch / version are you building with? | 13:06 |
| Ramose | bluelightning: From here I am pulling nettle recipe, https://github.com/openembedded/openembedded-core | 13:08 |
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| bluelightning | Ramose: ok so which branch are you on from there? | 13:08 |
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| Ramose | bluelightning: don't know how to find it out ? can you tell me please | 13:11 |
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| kanavin | rburton: nothing has happened with recipe assignments, so I just resent an update version of my patch | 13:23 |
| rburton | good reminding i'll do that now :) | 13:23 |
| rburton | phase 1 sent | 13:24 |
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| kanavin | rburton: looks good, except why drop core-image and package groups recipes? | 13:28 |
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| kanavin | I would prefer that everything listed here http://recipes.yoctoproject.org/rrs/recipes/2.4/All/ has a maintainer | 13:28 |
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| rburton | i actually wanted a way of saying "not relevant" | 13:33 |
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| ChrysD | What is the link between the Meta Vendor and the all project based on yocto project ? Like let say i would like a new version of my kernel. But the BSP Vendor layer is based into another kernel linux. So the work is to overlay the project to put my own layer and upgrade it? | 13:36 |
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| rburton | kanavin: for the dnf recipes, assuming the SHAs correspond to release tags, can you just rename the recipe to have the PV embedded in the filename? | 13:54 |
| rburton | i prefer that for clarity | 13:54 |
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| kanavin | rburton: sure, just a moment | 13:56 |
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| kanavin | I prefer that too, but you know, inertia :) | 13:56 |
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| ribalda | Hello! I am in the process of buying my ticket to the ELCE. Anyone know is there is any plan for a Yocto Developer Day Europe? (Sorry for the cross-post, from #oe i just realised this is the group where I should post this ) | 14:31 |
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| fray | ribalda I would expect there will be | 14:50 |
| fray | I've not looked at the dates of ELCE yet.. but it's usually just before or just after.. since ELC is 3 days.. YP day is immediate day before or after (during week, not weekend) and the OE meetings (if there is oen) is usually the day after (or before) | 14:50 |
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| fray | i.e. if ELC-E is Wed/Thr/Fri.. YP is usually Tuesday and OE usually Monday.. | 14:51 |
| fray | if it's Tue/Wed/Thr -- then one side is usually YP and the other OE | 14:51 |
| fray | Mon/Tue/Wed - Thr is usually YP and Fri OE | 14:51 |
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| fray | hopefully that helps.. (You can look for Jefro on IRC he may have more info if anything has been scheduled) | 14:52 |
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| ChrysD | What is the yocto component responsible of choosing the kernel version ? Is it the poky we install if we base with poky? Could it be the BSP Vendor also in his layer? | 15:08 |
| ChrysD | * yocto component => i mean meta layer sorry. | 15:08 |
| Crofton|work | fray OE meeting is Sunday at ELCE, YP dev day is Thursday | 15:09 |
| bluelightning | ChrysD: it could be specified anywhere really, though typically it is the BSP | 15:09 |
| fray | Ahh so you made it earlier.. :P | 15:09 |
| Crofton|work | yeah | 15:09 |
| fray | thus my 'usually' comment.. ;) | 15:10 |
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| Crofton|work | figured waitin guntil Friday would hurt attencance | 15:10 |
| ChrysD | bluelightning : Ok thanks. | 15:10 |
| Crofton|work | no really good choices | 15:10 |
| ChrysD | bluelightning : so basically what is the impact of yocto in software versionning ? Like for exemple if my all project is in morty version. So basically and logically i should take meta-qt5 if I want qt5. But the version of qt5 is maybe not the one I want. So the yocto branch name is a kind of picture of the state of the version you can use? | 15:12 |
| ChrysD | bluelightning : i should take the morty branch of meta-qt5* | 15:12 |
| fray | the branch name is the corresponding YP branch | 15:12 |
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| fray | so morty of meta-qt5 belongs with morty of the YP.. | 15:12 |
| ChrysD | yeah i know | 15:12 |
| fray | any other 'mix' of branch names, you are on your own as far as compatibility goes.. | 15:12 |
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| fray | it might work, it might not.. if it doesn't.. there likely isn't anyone who may be willing to help | 15:13 |
| bluelightning | ChrysD: you will need to take the branch corresponding to the poky /. OE-Core branch that you are using. If you need a different version you will probably need to backport it | 15:13 |
| ChrysD | So somebody that supply morty branch of his own meta it means that should be compatible to the morty of the YP branch | 15:13 |
| fray | yes | 15:13 |
| ChrysD | But when we speak about YP branch, we speak about poky right? | 15:13 |
| fray | Poky is an instantiation of OpenEmbedded + bitbake + meta-yocto* layers | 15:13 |
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| fray | the branch namings on all of the parts (except bitbake) should generally use the same format.. | 15:14 |
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| fray | bitbake uses a numeric system, which can sometimes make it a bit tricky to know what matches | 15:14 |
| ChrysD | bluelightning : So if i want let say qt 5.9 but the meta-qt5 provides me 5.8, i'm still able to do it, but i have to do it in my own | 15:14 |
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| fray | yes.. and in the case of 5.8 -> 5.9.. usually the upgrade isn't all that bad.. | 15:15 |
| ChrysD | but i have to be aware of all the changes i need into it | 15:15 |
| ChrysD | Because for now the BSP vendor supply a krogoth branch for his BSP. And I see that he is using a old kernerl ... linux-imx 4.1 with a old version of gstreamer | 15:16 |
| ChrysD | And I was curious on how i'm dependant of their meta | 15:16 |
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| bluelightning | ChrysD: you may be able to use a newer YP branch of meta-qt5 *as a reference for comparison* when you do the upgrade yourself | 15:16 |
| fray | if it's krogoth, presumably that was the last version they've tested... so using anything newer and you are again "on your own".. | 15:16 |
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| ChrysD | yeah they use kernel linux-èimx 4.1 and i need kernel 4.9 | 15:17 |
| bluelightning | ChrysD: unfortunately that is an issue for some BSPs, it's really up to the vendor / maintainer how they keep the kernel up-to-date | 15:17 |
| fray | (this is part of the reason as a project we preach work on the latest you can"... | 15:17 |
| fray | as an OSV, we tend to pick the fall releases to sync on.. and then we're forced to upgrade things (like BSPs) that external providers aren't willing to | 15:17 |
| fray | OSV - commercial - Wind River -- not YP.. | 15:18 |
| ChrysD | So what does poky really provide? | 15:18 |
| fray | the base platform.. including the build system, userspace, kernel, and some reference BSPs.. all in a tested/known configuration | 15:18 |
| ChrysD | so if the BSP vendor meta give the kernel | 15:18 |
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| fray | so when you start working, you know you have somethign that worked in a specific configuration with a group of people willing to answer questions and accept bugs (no support promise though) | 15:19 |
| ChrysD | Yeah | 15:19 |
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| fray | if you want more then that, you really need to go into the commercial realm of the OSV.. or aquire the skills to do it yourself.. | 15:19 |
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| luc4 | Hello! Anyone here working with the meta-raspberry layer by any chance? | 15:19 |
| ChrysD | so basically, if i want to use new kernel version | 15:20 |
| fray | (we find, speaking as a commercial OSV, that often the board vendor layers are generally crap.. they usually are very very specific to a single use-case and often are not generic enough to work for more then a small number of users at during a moment in time..) | 15:20 |
| ChrysD | I do my own meta | 15:20 |
| ChrysD | and i do the recipes for it | 15:20 |
| ChrysD | even if the meta of my bsp vendor is in a lower verison | 15:20 |
| fray | yes.. (or one of the YP/OE advantages for commercial is there are people who you can hire to do it as well.. thus my comment about aquiring the skills) | 15:20 |
| ChrysD | Yeah i'm an intern | 15:21 |
| fray | :) | 15:21 |
| ChrysD | And I would like to have thsoe skills | 15:21 |
| ChrysD | and the main focus of the project i do | 15:21 |
| ChrysD | is to know what yocto is, how to use it | 15:21 |
| ChrysD | And stargting with the boards | 15:21 |
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| fray | my recommendation is to attempt to avoid cutting corners.. if you use the vendor kernel tree and upgrade -- then the next (different) vendor you won't be able to re-use anything you do.. | 15:22 |
| ChrysD | But I receive a board choosen from the guy on top of me and make my opinion of how it works and if it doesn't work how to do it | 15:22 |
| fray | if you port the work to the standard YP (linux-yocto) kernel tree.. then on the next project it is usually easy to upgrade/port and otherwise re-use the code for the same or different vendor | 15:22 |
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| ChrysD | yeah so if you buy a board to a vendor | 15:22 |
| armpit | Crofton|work, the bigger issue is there are 5 other LF events that week | 15:22 |
| ChrysD | you are also very dependant of the software work that they provide | 15:22 |
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| fray | yes... | 15:23 |
| Crofton|work | yeah | 15:23 |
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| kanavin | ChrysD: on what criteria was the board chosen, just curious? | 15:23 |
| fray | larger companies can afford to standarize (and need to, due to having many more projects) | 15:23 |
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| fray | kanavin, what I've see is often the hardware is choosen based on the belief that software is cheap and easy.. :P | 15:23 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : only the hardware | 15:23 |
| fray | then they get to the software side and find the board vendor BSP doesn't match, etc.. | 15:23 |
| kanavin | fray: yes, that was the subtext of my question :) | 15:23 |
| Crofton|work | fray cutting corners is the road to long term support hell | 15:24 |
| fray | Crofton|work -exactly- | 15:24 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : Because the guy on top of me doesn't know anything about yocto and linux embedded systems | 15:24 |
| * Crofton|work has personal experience with this | 15:24 | |
| ChrysD | kanavin : and the main role that I have | 15:24 |
| fray | I suspect most of us here do | 15:24 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : is for exemple saying that the choose of a board is also linked to the choose of the software | 15:24 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : to what imply the choose of that board, to what also imply the use of yocto | 15:25 |
| kanavin | ChrysD: I'd say you should choose the software first, and then the hardware :) | 15:25 |
| fray | ChrysD in your situation, I would start with the BSP from the board vendor and hte matching YP or OE version.. and get it all "building" (no local mods) | 15:25 |
| fray | then start to formulate a plan on what is necessary to upgrade to get where you want and what is ok to leave 'as-is' | 15:25 |
| ChrysD | because my role isn't to have something to work | 15:25 |
| ChrysD | but have a kind of study of what is it | 15:25 |
| ChrysD | so before i came to the company | 15:25 |
| ChrysD | they bought a board so that i can work in it | 15:25 |
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| fray | ...then report back to the people who choose this.. that they may have choosen poorly and why | 15:26 |
| ChrysD | Yeah | 15:26 |
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| fray | (the why is really important in those types of intern reports) | 15:26 |
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| ChrysD | you have 100% understand | 15:26 |
| ChrysD | i realized only 3 months after that the pipeline i wanted to make it working doesn't work | 15:26 |
| ChrysD | for gstreamer | 15:27 |
| ChrysD | Because i was using plugins made for linux mainline | 15:27 |
| ChrysD | And i'm not using that kernel | 15:27 |
| ChrysD | but a linux-imx | 15:27 |
| fray | I'm forgetting what is the magic packagegroup I need to get compiler, autoconf, automake and such onto the target image? | 15:27 |
| rburton | fray: tools-sdk IMAGE_FEATURE? | 15:27 |
| fray | thanks | 15:28 |
| fray | for some reason I was thinking that was an SDK flag and not a target image feature | 15:28 |
| ChrysD | I feel it very complicated when you are a big noobish in linux, in yocto and in hardware stuff | 15:28 |
| ChrysD | and being able after some month to explain how the whole works | 15:28 |
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| ChrysD | Be enough relevent to see the implication of every step etc | 15:30 |
| fray | this is why I always recommend make minimal changes and just get the system working first.. THEN work on modifications step by step.. otherwise you'll end up with a pile of changes and a non-working system with no hope to make it work.. | 15:31 |
| ChrysD | yeah | 15:31 |
| ChrysD | and i realize 3-4months after | 15:31 |
| ChrysD | that I should change the kernel version, the gstreamer version, lot of libs version etc | 15:31 |
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| ChrysD | I had support from the gstreamer channel to know why it doesn't works, and they was speaking to me with the asumption that i have the latest version of gstreamer and the linux mainline kernel, so I was more confused about why it doesn't works... I was trying to go deep in the gstreamer process to understand how they allocate memory etc. So I loose lot of time ahah | 15:33 |
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| ChrysD | I think what is the most confusing things is when you read lot of stuff in internet, and other people say it differently and then you are really confuse. You don't know who say the right, to which context is it for and as a non-expert.... Quite difficult to make a judgement ahah | 15:37 |
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| kanavin | ChrysD: reading stuff on the internet is not recommended :) other people are just as confused as you are. | 15:40 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : and people on IRC don't have the whole time to explain also everything as they need to work. So what's the best way to get information? | 15:40 |
| kanavin | ChrysD: what fray said + study the source code and its behavior yourself | 15:41 |
| kanavin | ChrysD: work with a plan and in small steps | 15:41 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : but you can make working without understanding also | 15:41 |
| tlk | Is there a way to run oe_runmake on a sbudir? | 15:41 |
| tlk | subdirectory? * | 15:41 |
| kanavin | ChrysD: yes, until you need to make a change, and it breaks, and you are completely lost | 15:42 |
| fray | You need to ask questions.. but realize not all answers will work in your situation. IRC is the first place I go.. if people know they will help, if they don't usually silence.. | 15:42 |
| fray | then move on to mailing lists.. if what someone suggestions doesn't work.. try to capture the error messages and ask for help -- but don't be surprised if they don't know how to resolve the issue.. | 15:42 |
| fray | again, mailing lists may be better for that kind... and if all else fails you will have to just dig into the code.. | 15:42 |
| fray | the smaller the amount of change per iteration the easier it will be to back out a 'self-imposed' problem | 15:43 |
| kanavin | fray: I slightly disagree - digging into the code is always my first choice :) | 15:43 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : only if you know what to dig | 15:43 |
| fray | kanavin I'm assuming he doesn't know where to dig at first | 15:43 |
| fray | thus IRC/mailing lists | 15:43 |
| kanavin | ChrysD: usually you have some kind of error message, so you start by figuring out where that comes from | 15:43 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : usually yes | 15:44 |
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| ChrysD | kanavin : For exemple I have problem with gstreamer | 15:44 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : I tried to go in deep also | 15:44 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : But I needed to understand what DMA, CMA is etc etc | 15:44 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : I was surprise of the performance but someone told me that there is no IOMMU on the board... I never heard of that | 15:45 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : sometimes havign some knowledge background like workflow of processing etc help I guess | 15:46 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : And you know, when you are not use on how the open source world works, you are a bit lsot at the beggining. When a company told me that the board should works to stream video. | 15:47 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : I understand some weeks after that they means, should works "hardwarely" | 15:48 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : it was way more difficult to make it really working ahah | 15:50 |
| kanavin | I do have to wonder if they thought they could get away with an inexperienced intern doing the work, instead of paying for a commercial support contract | 15:50 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : the reason is they don't need a result for now | 15:51 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : they just want have a first touch on it | 15:51 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : because the point is that they want to grow in competences and be able to work on it | 15:51 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : so kind of "exploration" step | 15:52 |
| kanavin | throw away the board then :) | 15:52 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : but the best is also why we should throw away the board ahahah | 15:52 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : to explain* | 15:52 |
| kanavin | and grow your competence with an intel NUC or similar walk in the park hardware | 15:52 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : The main prupose is to have a GUI with Qt and Gstreamer | 15:53 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : and use I.MX6 | 15:53 |
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| ChrysD | kanavin : And the guy at the top of me is more used in real time board and do his own SOM etc.... So when he choose the board he was more worried about question of pricing / delivering guarante / performance etc | 15:54 |
| kanavin | ChrysD: and he didn't consider software support at all? | 15:55 |
| ChrysD | kanavin : The vendor provide software | 15:55 |
| kanavin | ChrysD: take your issues to the vendor then :) | 15:55 |
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| ChrysD | kanavin : You know when you have never been into open source world, never been into linux embedded and so on... you don't know what to do ahah | 15:55 |
| fray | kanavin -- this is a common problem I see.. customer asks for 'YP Support', and the vendor says sure.. they buy the board and find out the support is 4-5-6 versions old.. | 15:56 |
| ChrysD | fray : is the feeling i get | 15:56 |
| ChrysD | fray : and the feeling i get is mainly they do a kind of meta layer which they put everything on it even if the recipes exist on other meta layer | 15:56 |
| kanavin | fray: yeah, we should do something to have stricter quality control here | 15:56 |
| fray | the old world of board + BSP + userspace (moment in time frozen) is changing.. problem is customers, BSP vendors and such havn't caught up | 15:56 |
| ChrysD | so you understand that i'm bet confused | 15:57 |
| ChrysD | bit* | 15:57 |
| fray | kanavin, this goes back to the YP Compatible stuff.. the solution is that you need to list -which- version(s) you are compatible with.. | 15:57 |
| fray | I don't know if that was ever added to the requiremetns | 15:57 |
| ChrysD | yeah but even | 15:57 |
| ChrysD | you need to know what you are talking about | 15:57 |
| ChrysD | Like in the website | 15:57 |
| fray | but should be part of the 'YP logo/mark' stuff.. and then it's education to the customers to ask that question | 15:57 |
| ChrysD | it was said that they were using krogoth 6 month before | 15:57 |
| ChrysD | and when you see demonstration of the baord with video working | 15:58 |
| ChrysD | that there is gstreamer | 15:58 |
| ChrysD | and Qt | 15:58 |
| ChrysD | you think it will work | 15:58 |
| kanavin | fray: maybe it should not be allowed to say 'yocto compatible' at all | 15:58 |
| ChrysD | But you need to have competenced in gstreamer, qt, linux etc to understand that it doesn't really work | 15:58 |
| kanavin | fray: 'yocto <version> compatible' only | 15:58 |
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| fray | Yocto Project Compatible is a trademark and is part of the 'value' of the YP.. | 15:59 |
| ChrysD | But it was the case | 15:59 |
| ChrysD | the company said that it was krogoth compatible | 15:59 |
| fray | the part that is missing is 'which version'.. and enforcing the trademark if people are saying they are 'and are not' | 15:59 |
| fray | ChrysD, which is why the second part is teaching people to understand what this means.. old software is much harder to support.. | 15:59 |
| ChrysD | fray : exactly | 16:00 |
| ChrysD | but i'm even more confuse now then before ahah | 16:01 |
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| ChrysD | because the way that they support you | 16:01 |
| ChrysD | make you do some assumption inside | 16:01 |
| ChrysD | as they support on the way they work on the software | 16:01 |
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| ChrysD | which maybe not follow the open source philsophy, the ycoto philosophy etc | 16:01 |
| ChrysD | So that you go far from understanding how it works | 16:01 |
| fray | yes.. which is why education is more and more important.. | 16:01 |
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| ChrysD | for exemple | 16:02 |
| ChrysD | what is the workflow | 16:02 |
| ChrysD | when you want to add a software | 16:02 |
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| ChrysD | When you use gstreamer plugins, be aware with what iit is compatible with.... | 16:02 |
| fray | for Morty and newer.. devtool is the recommended workflow.. (it's in the product docs).. | 16:02 |
| fray | on the specific applicaton or framework (gstreamer, qt, etc) there are no specific general recommendations | 16:03 |
| ChrysD | i realize "too late" that for exemple, the VPU inside the I.MX6 have two different drivers | 16:03 |
| ChrysD | one for linux-imx kernel | 16:03 |
| ChrysD | and one for linux-mainline | 16:03 |
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| ChrysD | and some plugisn works well with one and the other with the other one | 16:03 |
| ChrysD | But if you are not aware of the architecture of how linux works and what you need to be aware at, it's not easy | 16:04 |
| fray | the linux-mainline BTW is avalable in new YP/OE.. if that works with the i.MX6 without compromising functionality then I'd use that instead.. | 16:04 |
| ChrysD | fray : yeah and now how to put that ahah | 16:04 |
| fray | often though graphics drivers are proprietary (at least accelerated ones) and so you are forced to use an 'evil vendor tree' | 16:04 |
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| ChrysD | fray : for example to add more complexity to my project | 16:04 |
| ChrysD | fray : i needed to do a GUI with Qt... | 16:04 |
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| ChrysD | fray : never done C++ / QML before, and not qt | 16:05 |
| fray | QT itself could be a 3-month project to learn and setup.. | 16:05 |
| ChrysD | fray : yeah.... | 16:05 |
| ChrysD | fray : But for now | 16:05 |
| ChrysD | fray : i'm using QtMultimedia | 16:05 |
| ChrysD | fray : and it doesnt works well | 16:05 |
| ChrysD | fray : so you need to dig into how does qt manage to work on embedded systems | 16:06 |
| fray | also the version of QT included in say meta-qt5 is often more useful for a demo situation then a 'product' situation.. this is partially because the Qt Company (or whatever they're called these days) has their own sales model and integration/support model that they want their commercial users to use | 16:06 |
| ChrysD | fray : why it works with gstreamer but not qt xD | 16:06 |
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| kanavin | fray: coincidenrally, I'm just now fighting with meta-boot2qt :-) | 16:06 |
| kanavin | fray: trying to get it to make me an image I could boot | 16:07 |
| kanavin | fray: meta-boot2qt is their openembedded layer that is at the center of their qt for device creation offering | 16:07 |
| fray | I tend to stay away from anything graphics related.. it just complicates the base-os... once the base-os works, I can hand it off | 16:07 |
| ChrysD | fray : and now my problem is i'm using QtMultimedia, which is something based into Gstreamer, i have the image flickering and I don't know why without any errors.... | 16:07 |
| fray | flickering usually indicates a lack of optimization.. | 16:08 |
| ChrysD | fray : so what I have do to try some test | 16:08 |
| fray | either the CPU is too slow or the graphics drivers are not optimized.. that kind of thing | 16:08 |
| ChrysD | fray : is making a script which launch a process | 16:08 |
| ChrysD | fray : and i ahve launch my gstreamer pipeline directly | 16:08 |
| ChrysD | fray : which it works without using directly the QtMultimedia | 16:08 |
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| fray | I don't know is this case.. sorry.. just know the symptom is usually a driver issue.. (but not always) | 16:09 |
| ChrysD | fray : So it's not CPU issue | 16:09 |
| ChrysD | fray : and the whole problem i get is because i don'tk now the architecture, the process | 16:09 |
| ChrysD | fray : and that's are always difficult information to get | 16:10 |
| ChrysD | I was more used to play with microcontrollers and C code, so to debug is really more easy ahahahah | 16:10 |
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| ChrysD | so when you come into linux embedded systems, with multiple softwares layers and so on | 16:11 |
| rburton | if you want multimedia to work nicely you should just approach the vendor of the BSP and find out what they recommend for best performance with gstreamer | 16:11 |
| fray | a lot of ARM systems (i.MX included) have specific gstreamer, QT/graphics drivers, etc.. if you don't use them performance is aweful.. | 16:11 |
| fray | however, to get the drivers often you need to go directly to the vendor or chip maker and sign a bunch of NDAs.. | 16:11 |
| ChrysD | rburton : and the recommendation isn't good aahah | 16:11 |
| ChrysD | so I learn about how linux works | 16:12 |
| fray | well, start with what they claim works.. and then move from there to what you want.. | 16:12 |
| ChrysD | fray : that's the kanavin step : throw away the board ahahah | 16:12 |
| ChrysD | fray : that's works | 16:12 |
| fray | the embedded world is very differetn then the desktop PC... in that the vendors don't share as much, and often NDAs are required in order to get software (even for Linux) | 16:12 |
| fray | when a customer wants to buy $10m in parts, the vendors are very responsive.. when you are prototyping on one board.. they ignore you.. it's unfortunately but reality in embedded | 16:13 |
| ChrysD | fray : you know what was the assumption of the guy on top of me? | 16:13 |
| kanavin | ChrysD: you don't necessarily have to throw away the board, but you could start with a board that is not such a pain in the butt | 16:13 |
| kanavin | ChrysD: get your stuff to work perfectly on it (yes, intel NUC or even qemu - no hardware at all :), then move it to the real thing | 16:13 |
| ChrysD | fray : he was use to do bsp on boards. And he do by hand. So for him a vendor is just only an hardware support and not a software support. So when I say that some stuff doesn't work he was more like to say how to know to make it happen. | 16:14 |
| fray | a lot of people will prototype on a PC.. get the steps and actions right (use the same versiono fthe YP) and then run on the board.. and go to the vendor and ask for help.. that is the typical real-world commercial scenerio | 16:14 |
| fray | ya, and that is not the modern embedded world. | 16:14 |
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| fray | modern embedded world is that you (as a customer) become an integrator of software and hardware components.. as well as an application provider | 16:15 |
| ChrysD | for him , the fact that they provides the meta, is just a "+" | 16:15 |
| ChrysD | the cream of the cream | 16:15 |
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| ChrysD | but they are not paid for supprting that | 16:15 |
| fray | well you can always ignore that stuff and do your own kernel port.. followed by your own graphics drivers port.. followed by your own codec support.. | 16:15 |
| fray | but that is stupid, it wastes time, money and effort.. | 16:15 |
| ChrysD | yeah | 16:15 |
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| fray | the old model of embedded where you do everything yourself is dead.. | 16:15 |
| ChrysD | But you know he came from the RT embedded worlds | 16:16 |
| fray | Linux is not the right answer for everyone.. but it's a better answer then keep doing it the same way it's always been done | 16:16 |
| ChrysD | so mostly you do the thing son your own | 16:16 |
| fray | RT doesn't mean performance.. | 16:16 |
| fray | for multimedia you are asking for performance.. | 16:16 |
| ChrysD | I didn't speak about performance | 16:16 |
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| ChrysD | Yeah and for now he have a gui working on a 640 x 480 screen | 16:16 |
| ChrysD | but the problem is for a 800 x 600 screen need more performance as you said | 16:17 |
| ChrysD | so more powerfull microprocessor | 16:17 |
| ChrysD | and come the idea of linux | 16:17 |
| fray | long term.. software is far more expensive then the hardware.. on a re-occuring basis though bean-counters look at the hardware costs as a reoccurring expensive while software -- that's just someone's paycheck.. | 16:17 |
| fray | if you actually put the costs together properly, software is often 2x (or more) then the hardware costs on a re-occuring basis.. | 16:18 |
| fray | but yet people ignore software when they make hardware decisions.. | 16:18 |
| ChrysD | while before intern team works in the software | 16:18 |
| ChrysD | but now is to much complicated | 16:18 |
| ChrysD | Doing gstreamer plugins is a work by itself | 16:18 |
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| fray | graphics, multimedia, board support and OS are 4 separate jobs.. | 16:19 |
| ChrysD | Where before the guy on top of me was doing this 4 jobs ahah | 16:19 |
| rburton | writing a gst plugin is definitely not trivial for non-experts, the vendor should definitely be writing those for their hardware. | 16:19 |
| ChrysD | so explain it is a little difficult | 16:19 |
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| ChrysD | When you start from doing your own bsp on light microprocessor with RTOS doing GUI / Board Support / Multimedia etc... And you want a little more performance but you see that you need to multiply by 3 the cost because now software become to much complicate... it sometimes difficult to make people aware of that. | 16:20 |
| fray | rburton BTW I can't build tools-sdk in master.. :P | 16:21 |
| fray | | WARNING: /home/mhatle/git/oss/oe-core/build-prelink/tmp-glibc/work/core2-64-oe-linux/python3-pycairo/1.10.0-r2/temp/run.do_compile.23425:1 exit 1 from './waf build -j 144' | 16:21 |
| ChrysD | And when you are an intern " that know nothing in embedded" and trying to explain to people that worked on more thant 10 to 20 years in embedded ( but not linux ), my position is quite complicate to convince things that I'm not sure i understant ahahah | 16:21 |
| fray | apparently that is required and doesn't currently work | 16:21 |
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| * fray lowers the -j for that recipe | 16:23 | |
| fray | | WARNING: /home/mhatle/git/oss/oe-core/build-prelink/tmp-glibc/work/core2-64-oe-linux/python3-pycairo/1.10.0-r2/temp/run.do_compile.24571:1 exit 1 from './waf build -j 1' | 16:24 |
| fray | same problem damn | 16:24 |
| fray | AH-HA! | 16:24 |
| fray | | ../src/cairomodule.c:21:10: fatal error: Python.h: No such file or directory | 16:24 |
| fray | | #include <Python.h> | 16:24 |
| fray | | ^~~~~~~~~~ | 16:24 |
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| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #1184 of nightly-x86-64-lsb is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-x86-64-lsb/builds/1184 | 17:25 | |
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| drewbert | Having trouble finding a recipe for python-contextlib | 17:49 |
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| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #799 of nightly-mips64 is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-mips64/builds/799 | 18:18 | |
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| kergoth | drewbert: contextlib is part of the standard library, so the recipe is python or python3, the same recipe that provides python itself. | 18:32 |
| drewbert | Hi kergoth, thank you for your reply. I should have posted sooner that I found that contextlib was added to the standard lib sometime after we cloned it: http://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit.cgi/poky/commit/?id=7f58a85337a0712802bdb604a58985a8800b6477 | 18:33 |
| kergoth | drewbert: that said, if you really need the backport for some reason (i.e. quite old python recipe for an old yocto release), search the layer index, as you would for any recipe | 18:33 |
| kergoth | https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/recipes/ | 18:33 |
| kergoth | which finds http://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/recipe/45303/http://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/recipe/45303/ | 18:33 |
| kergoth | http://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/recipe/45303/ rather | 18:33 |
| kergoth | so either update poky, pull in meta-openstack, or copy the recipe into your own layer | 18:34 |
| drewbert | contextlib2 doesn't provide contextlib (although maybe it should?). Either way, I've got a path forward. Thank you for your help. My changes are building now. *fingers crossed* | 18:35 |
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| kergoth | drewbert: the best bet would be to just apply the changes from https://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit.cgi/poky/commit/?id=7f58a85337a0712802bdb604a58985a8800b6477 yourself via a bbappend | 18:37 |
| kergoth | then you wouldnt' ahve to alter the package to also support contextlib2 | 18:37 |
| kergoth | PACKAGES +=, RDEPENDS_${PN}-modules +=, and the new vars | 18:37 |
| drewbert | oh interesting. I'll read about bbappend. I just applied the package directly. | 18:37 |
| drewbert | s/package/patch/ | 18:38 |
| distrozapper | rburton, btw thanks again for engagement last days and pointing me to right direction. I see there is much RTFM for me ;) Have a nice day! | 18:45 |
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| rburton | kergoth: just sent a patch to the bitbake list, fiddling with the cache code so your expert opinion would be good | 18:48 |
| kergoth | k | 18:48 |
| rburton | the classic one-liner that may have disastrous consequences :) | 18:48 |
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| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #1159 of nightly-mips is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-mips/builds/1159 | 18:59 | |
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| rburton_ | khem: for some odd reason your gcc/pie changes make the core-image-sato-sdk tests fail as klogd can't find the kernel maps file... | 20:03 |
| rburton_ | veery odd | 20:03 |
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| ChrysD | Hi =) I have a little problem. I'm using yocto and I see recipe from the BSP vendor with the name of "linux-mainline" | 20:31 |
| ChrysD | But when I use uname -a , i see linux-imx ? | 20:31 |
| -YoctoAutoBuilder- build #784 of nightly-arm64 is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/main/builders/nightly-arm64/builds/784 | 20:32 | |
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| kergoth | ChrysD: what do you mean by 'see the recipe'? where? just because you happen to see something on your disk doesnt' mean it's going to be used. the MACHINE controls what kernel recipe is used, either via PREFERRED_PROVIDER in the machine .conf or via COMPATIBLE_MACHINE in the kernel recipe files | 20:44 |
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| ChrysD | kergoth : I know that ahah | 20:47 |
| ChrysD | kergoth : but in the bsp vendor meta layer | 20:47 |
| ChrysD | kergoth : only provides linux-mainline recipes, | 20:48 |
| ChrysD | kergoth : no linux-imx recipes | 20:48 |
| ChrysD | kergoth : and when I do uname -a its written linux-imx | 20:48 |
| kergoth | the fact that you can't find the recipe means nothing | 20:48 |
| kergoth | run bitbake -e virtual/kernel | grep '^FILE=', that's the recipe that'll be built | 20:48 |
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