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| yocti | New news from stackoverflow: How to use the latest oe-depends-dot in Yocto <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/61167921/how-to-use-the-latest-oe-depends-dot-in-yocto> | 07:25 |
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| Yocto_newb | sup world | 17:41 |
| nameclash | wazzuuuuuppp | 17:42 |
| Yocto_newb | i noticed yocto makes the images with busybox is there any way to bring in a bash ver of a app ie "date"? | 17:43 |
| Yocto_newb | sup nameclash | 17:43 |
| Yocto_newb | lots of time on my hands do to cv-19 | 17:44 |
| nameclash | add the corresponding package to your image (e.g. core-image-minimal.bbappend) | 17:45 |
| neverpanic | Yocto_newb: The "bash" version is usually from the coreutils package, which does exist in Yocto, you just have to include it in your image. | 17:45 |
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| Yocto_newb | well "date" is on the image but it is using busybox ver of "date". | 17:46 |
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| neverpanic | Yocto_newb: Yes, you need to install coreutils for its version of date. | 17:46 |
| nameclash | IMAGE_INSTALL += " coreutils" | 17:46 |
| neverpanic | The update-alternative mechanism should automatically prefer the coreutils version. | 17:46 |
| Yocto_newb | so you saying if i bitbake date it will compile the bash ver? | 17:46 |
| neverpanic | There's no such thing as the "bash" version, bash is a shell, coreutils a completely separate package of small utility binaries. | 17:47 |
| neverpanic | And you can't "bitbake date", you need to add the coreutils package to your image using IMAGE_INSTALL. | 17:47 |
| Yocto_newb | sweet thank you so much | 17:47 |
| nameclash | it should update the alternatives to point to the coreutils version instead of the busybox one | 17:47 |
| Yocto_newb | thank you! thank you ! i dont know why yocto hasnt gotten better faq's and these mailing lists are a nightmare | 17:50 |
| neverpanic | It's a powerful system, but it comes with quite a bit of complexity. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a good alternative other than putting your own share of debugging time into it to understand how it works. | 17:51 |
| neverpanic | The documentation isn't bad, though, if you know what to look for. | 17:51 |
| Yocto_newb | ive been workin round the clock for last 4-5months or so.. ive started to understand most of the basics got most of my software functional now just finishing touchs and tweeks | 17:54 |
| Yocto_newb | i seen some of the postinstall stuff using run-postinstalls? is there an advantage to using yoctos way vs just making a start up script? | 17:56 |
| Yocto_newb | does it run the postinstall before making the image? vs startup script runs at first boot? | 17:57 |
| Yocto_newb | this chat reminds me of my aol warez days.... sitting in a room with 200+ bots and no people? | 18:02 |
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| neverpanic | Lots of people do Yocto at their day job and are currently on holidays. | 18:06 |
| neverpanic | That doesn't mean their IRC clients aren't running, though. | 18:06 |
| kergoth | aye, it's usually quiet outside work hours, but it being easter for a lot of folks makes it even quieter | 18:08 |
| kergoth | irc is generally pretty asynchronous. ask your question, wait for a response whenever someone comes back | 18:09 |
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| Yocto_newb | stupid question? the idea of using the local.conf for settings is like debugging right. everything in local.conf should be moved into pacakagegroups and image file based on core image for deployment?right? | 18:53 |
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| Yocto_newb | stupid question? the idea of using the local.conf for settings is like debugging right. everything in local.conf should be moved into pacakagegroups and image file based on core image for deployment?right? | 18:59 |
| kergoth | or distro, or machien, or wherever it's most appropriate, yes | 19:00 |
| kergoth | there are those that version control local.conf, but it's a mistake to do so, best to keep it for local build settings, testing, debugging | 19:00 |
| kergoth | making your own layer and distro and image recipes is pretty easy and highly recommended. there's a sort of mental barrier, folks think it's harder than it is :) | 19:01 |
| Yocto_newb | so is every setting in local.conf is able to be set elsewhere | 19:01 |
| kergoth | not everything. DISTRO/MACHINE have to be set there or earlier, as conf/machine/${MACHINE}.conf and conf/distro/${DISTRO}.conf are parsed after local.conf | 19:02 |
| kergoth | but most things | 19:02 |
| Yocto_newb | ya i made a layer just switching off of local.conf within the last week | 19:02 |
| Yocto_newb | so i havent found much documentation about rdepend depend and install_image is seems things dont always install if not put under the right var. i know rdepend and depend in a recipe is the difference between runtime and compile. and some things that have been installed with install_image can be moved to depends but not the other way around? what im | 19:09 |
| Yocto_newb | i missing? | 19:09 |
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| kergoth | bitbake only builds what's needed, and it all starts with what you specify on the bitbake commandline | 19:12 |
| kergoth | 'bitbake someimage' will build the someimage image recipe and what it depends on and nothing else | 19:12 |
| kergoth | IMAGE_INSTALL specifies what packages are installed into that image. anything else comes indirectly by what those packages rdepend on, or the recipes that emit those packages depend on | 19:13 |
| kergoth | if IMAGE_INSTALL references a packagegroup, then you could include an additional package either via IMAGE_INSTALL directly or via the rdepends of that packagegroup, or anything it depends on | 19:14 |
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| kergoth | depends isn't going to put anything into an image directly, ever. it only affects what gets built. if a recipe DEPENDS on something and then links against a library from it, oe's automatic shared library detection will add the rdepends implicitly, but otherwise it won't affect the image contents at all | 19:15 |
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| Yocto_newb | sweet | 19:16 |
| Yocto_newb | thank you that clears up a lot | 19:16 |
| kergoth | no problem. i could go into more detail, but that's probably all you want to know | 19:16 |
| kergoth | :) | 19:16 |
| Yocto_newb | so something installed under image_install could be removed and switched to rdepends? or would switching it to rdepends loose packages | 19:18 |
| kergoth | well that depends on what recipe's rdepends you're adding it to and whether that recipe's package is already in IMAGE_INSTALL | 19:19 |
| kergoth | ex. you could move from IMAGE_INSTALL to a packagegroup's RDEPENDS if that packagegroup is already in IMAGE_INSTALL or is otherwise pulled in | 19:19 |
| kergoth | otherwise you'll just end up with a package with a dependency sitting in tmp/deploy/ but not actually used for anything | 19:19 |
| Yocto_newb | ok | 19:19 |
| Yocto_newb | thats what i was missing | 19:19 |
| Yocto_newb | i didnt think about the packagegroup being listed under install_image | 19:20 |
| kergoth | like i said, it'll only build the targets you speciyf on the commandline and what they depend on, if you add it to something that isn't already being pulled in, it won't do much unless you explicitly build those targets | 19:20 |
| kergoth | we have thousands of recipes, so it won't go off and build what it doesn't have to :) | 19:20 |
| kergoth | same for the image, we don't want packages installed bloating the image unless they're actually needed | 19:21 |
| Yocto_newb | sweet thank you so much for taking time to help me | 19:21 |
| kergoth | but consider the purpose of things. if the packagegroup in question makes sense to always pull in a given package given its purpose and scope, by all means mov eit, but if it's really only useful in this one image, it might be best left in IMAGE_INSTALL | 19:22 |
| kergoth | Yocto_newb: on a related note, especially with regard to what goes where, i'd suggest reading https://gist.github.com/kergoth/d2d4f7ed65561e67ef09f258ba73111d — it's slightly out of date, and isn't written the best, but it still covers a key principle | 19:24 |
| Yocto_newb | sweet | 19:24 |
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| Yocto_newb | do you maintain your own layer somewhere? | 19:26 |
| kergoth | Not one specific one. I work for one of the Yocto member companies as an operating system vendor (Mentor Graphics), so much of my work on yocto & oe is done for them, in their layers. I do have a variety of personal ones, but they're mostly for specific purposes and personal use, proof of concept of features before i submit them, or old prototypes that weren't viable, etc | 19:27 |
| kergoth | I maintain meta-external-toolchain, meta-sourcery, and meta-mentor most visibly. | 19:28 |
| Yocto_newb | wow very impressive!!! | 19:28 |
| kergoth | I was one of the founders of bitbake & oe back in the day, but am not nearly as involved as in the past, Richard is a way better maintainer than I ever was :) | 19:29 |
| Yocto_newb | WOW | 19:29 |
| kergoth | a bit hard to believe it's 16 years old now. now i feel old | 19:29 |
| Yocto_newb | isnt openwrt and ddwrt based on yocto too? | 19:30 |
| kergoth | last i checked openwrt was buildroot-based, but i admittedly havent' checked it out in ages | 19:30 |
| Yocto_newb | ya i know the old feeling i still remember aol1.0 on a floppy you had to copy it to dos to run it... | 19:31 |
| kergoth | a big part of why oe exists is a number of us outgrew buildroot, it wasn't scaling to what we needed for long term distro maintainence. which is a big difference between the two. buildroot and its variants are fantastic for quick stuff, board bringup, etc, but isn't as great for the longer term. yocto/oe is great for the longer term but has a bigger learning curve. so it's a tradeoff. | 19:32 |
| Yocto_newb | i dont know never used buildroot .. yocto is my first attempt to make a distro | 19:34 |
| Yocto_newb | its been a rather fun journey | 19:34 |
| kergoth | That makes sense, building a linux distro is interesting indeed, i imagine that's the attraction of projects like linuxfromscratch as well. there's something to seeing how the pieces of a linux system fit together | 19:35 |
| Yocto_newb | is there an advantage to using yoctos postinstall vs making a startup script? | 19:35 |
| kergoth | postinstall usually just runs once on first boot, and even then only if it's explicitly marked as not being able to be done at image creation time, otherwise that's when it'll be run | 19:36 |
| Yocto_newb | so no difference really then? | 19:37 |
| kergoth | not really, again comes down to the purpose and where it makes the most sense conceptually, but many could be done either way. | 19:37 |
| kergoth | one way to consider it is to think about the use case of installing the packages at runtime on target. what would be the behavior then? you might not care, but it helps to clarify | 19:37 |
| kergoth | since a postinst would run at package install time in such a case | 19:38 |
| kergoth | ex apt-get update; apt-get install foobar | 19:38 |
| Yocto_newb | so postinst runs within yocto not on first-boot? | 19:39 |
| kergoth | when the image is built, yeah, unless it's marked as being only able to be run on target | 19:39 |
| kergoth | since that's when the package is installed into the rootfs, at image build time | 19:39 |
| Yocto_newb | oh wow that makes a big difference i thought postinstall ran on targets first boot | 19:40 |
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| LetoThe2nd | kergoth: as you mentioned people being of.. .just for the record, i'm pretty much out of the loop until mid of may | 19:49 |
| Yocto_newb | thank you so much for you time kergoth | 19:50 |
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