Friday, 2021-02-26

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Guest87383rabbit9911: this means the that you have does not have SONAME encoded in ELF02:48
Guest87383can you post output of readelf -d ?02:48
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rabbit9911So you are right it does not have the soname encoded. The way its working is there are a few libraries softlinked to this one libMali.so03:10
rabbit9911All precompiled blobs to me03:11
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rabbit9911But I don't understand why copying -> would work but ln -s does not.03:18
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Guest87383yeah soname is missing03:21
Guest87383so yocto shlibs resolver will be confused because this library can not be found in dependency manager as a result03:22
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khemyeah symlinks are not used as names it will resolve to real .so03:23
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rabbit9911Okay. It looks like just creating a new *empty) (with proper soname) linked against the is making yocto happy.05:37
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hmw1hi i have an external layer that is providing a patch that is already in an other external layer  how do i remove one in my layer07:29
hmw1two diverend layers both do a bbappend with the same patchfile07:30
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thekappehello guys ! I've noticed that some recipes build directory are in <machine>-poky-linux and some other ones are in all-poky-linux. Why is this happenning ? how do I put a recipe build dir in <machine>-poky-linux ? Thanks !07:44
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abellonithekappe: all-poky-linux are for recipes that generate package that are not machine dependent07:45
abellonie.g python scripts07:45
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thekappe@abelloni, I have a recipe that builds a binary file and since it's related to a specific machine I want that recipe build folder being put in <machine>-poky-linux. How can I do that ? I've added "COMPATIBLE_MACHINE=<machine-name>" but it doesn't work07:50
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mckoangood morning07:52
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abellonithekappe: PACKAGE_ARCH = "${MACHINE_ARCH}"07:59
thekappeabelloni, thanks man08:00
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LetoThe2ndyo dudX08:32
mckoanhi LetoThe2nd08:40
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intera91good morning10:05
intera91working from a docker container, I cannot create the final wic file due to limitation of the overlay fs, has anyone found a way around that?10:06
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LetoThe2ndgood thing about new build infrastructure: moar power. bad thign about new infrastructure: much starwalking and physical access until everything works.10:07
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qschulzLetoThe2nd: starwalking/walk of fame?10:10
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LetoThe2ndserver housing is on production floor.10:10
LetoThe2ndbut then i'll compile the s**t out of everything!!!10:11
qschulzintera91: have you heard about pyrex by any chance?10:11
intera91qschulz: apart from the plates which can go in the oven:  no10:12
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LetoThe2ndmh... oven...10:12
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qschulzmight help you with getting started with containers10:12
qschulzhaven't used yet but some cool kids here do10:13
qschulzJPEW: might want to pay me for marketing soon ;)10:13
intera91@qschulz: everuthjing compiles fine and its just that last stage creating tye wic file as the python script wants to know the filesystem block size and that is a fail as overlayfs doesn't support that  system call10:14
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RPLetoThe2nd: I prefer the idea of starwalking10:18
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LetoThe2ndRP: as Ronnie James Dio told us, real metal heads can either go stargazing or, space trucking. no starwalking allowed.10:20
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RPLetoThe2nd: but what to do if your star needs walking?10:23
LetoThe2ndRP: it will take me a lifetime to get that picture out of my head again.10:31
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NiniC0c0Hallo Yocto Wizards ! Is it possible to override variable set in machine.conf from image recipe ?10:45
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RPNiniC0c0: possible, yes. I suspect what you're trying to change is something not capable of being changed in an image though. Which variable?10:47
LetoThe2ndNiniC0c0: you can override it, but only for the rest of the recipe.10:48
LetoThe2ndfor all other cases, see yocto chant #110:48
RPe.g. trying to change the libc from within an image wouldn't make sense as much more than just the image is affected by it10:48
NiniC0c0Hi RP, currently i'm using a custom bbclass to build FIT image. To configure this recipe I have set some variables inside machine.conf (kernel source/device-tree...) but I would like to override this configuration depending the image10:50
NiniC0c0and i'm not sure about the right way10:50
RPNiniC0c0: the challenge is that the kernel is already built by the time the image recipe is processed so the image recipe can't change the kernel configuration10:51
RPNiniC0c0: you can definitely do things like that but you need to think a little differently about what you're doing, for example they might be separate machines (inheriting one machine from another and tweaking it is cheap)10:52
RPassuming you really do need different kernels10:52
NiniC0c0RP understand ! Thank you for your time :)10:53
qschulzNiniC0c0: for the device tree, just ship more device trees in your fitimage, or make use of overlays, or both. Provided you can detect which variant you want to boot from u-boot (or a conf file, such as uExt.conf (not sure it's named this way) that you would create per image)10:55
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qschulzfor the kernel, just make a superset of everything you need and that should b enough (if you need a driver in one image but don't need it in the other image, just have it for both or compile it as a module and include it ony in the image you want to use it in)10:56
NiniC0c0qschulz Are you saying that u-boot is able to set overlay before starting kernel ? Interesting, I need to double check that10:56
qschulzNiniC0c0: yup, fdt command lets you do that10:56
NiniC0c0qschulz I will check, you made my day10:56
NiniC0c0again ;)10:56
qschulz(and actually... u-boot is already doing that for the memory DT node, it's implicitely done10:56
MartinH90Hello community, anybody here with experience with npm recipe generation? I fail generating the cute-files demo from the Yocto wiki ( on Zeus release.10:57
qschulzNiniC0c0: and I THINK bootm actually supports applying device tree overlays directly without using fdt command10:57
qschulzlike, bootm 0x4678764654#dtb#dtbo#dtbo, etc...10:57
LetoThe2ndMartinH90: zeus is not exactly a good place to start out unfortunately... maybe try with either dunfell, gatesgarth or master, and if you run into problems then please provide a full problem description/log11:02
MartinH90LetoThe2nd thanks! Maybe I can backport the recipes then. Here an error log: ERROR: cute-files-1.0.2-r0 do_compile: Execution of '/home/martin/workspace-npm/build/tmp/work/aarch64-my-project/cute-files/1.0.2-r0/temp/run.do_compile.2479040' failed with exit code 1:11:05
MartinH90npm WARN using --force I sure hope you know what you are doing.11:05
MartinH90npm ERR! Cannot read property 'replace' of null11:05
qschulzMartinH90: last edit of this page was almost three years ago11:06
LetoThe2ndMartinH90: a) is that on a maintened release also? b) that doesn't look like a full og (pastebin, please)11:06
qschulz(this page = this page in the wiki)11:06
LetoThe2ndqschulz: yes, i noticed too, but i wouldn't really blame it as the npm fetcher at least should be maintained.11:06
qschulzthe wiki isn't actively maintained, unlike docs.yoctoproject.org11:07
qschulzLetoThe2nd: npm has seen major changes in the last few years IIRC11:07
LetoThe2ndqschulz: it has!11:07
MartinH90LetoThe2nd qschulz: Here is the pastebin:
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LetoThe2ndMartinH90: sounds like there is your explanation, ain't it? the package doesn't even compiole properly in itself.11:13
MartinH90LetoThe2nd I tried with different npm packages and all produce the same error message. I was hoping this is a known bug and there is a fix already available ;-)11:14
LetoThe2ndMartinH90: TypeError: Cannot read property 'replace' of null11:14
LetoThe2ndah wait. maybe that package has no shrinkwrap file?11:15
LetoThe2ndthen its indeed known behaviour. go check the ml11:15
MartinH90LetoThe2nd a shrinkwrap file was not generated, there was an error in devtool add. A package-lock.json was generated. See pastebin:
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intera91does anyone use pyrex? following the instructions only results in Error response from daemon: invalid mount config for type "bind": bind source path does not exist: /tmp/tmpgzhcag5511:24
intera91does anyone use pyrex? following the instructions only results in Error response from daemon: invalid mount config for type "bind": bind source path does not exist: /tmp/tmpgzhcag5511:25
intera91there is a python script which tries to create a temporary dir and file with a raqndomly generated name and that fails spectacularly11:26
LetoThe2ndMartinH90:  nah thats not what i meant. the npm bbclass behaves unexpectedly/badly when there is no shrinkwrap file supplied. there has been a thread and also a workaround patch on the ml11:29
MartinH90LetoThe2nd great, thanks!11:32
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hthiery[m]Hi all. what is the best/easiest way to set the DL_DIR from environment. I would like to avoid putting it in the local.conf.11:54
LetoThe2ndhthiery[m]: DL_DIR= :)11:57
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hthiery[m]LetoThe2nd: you mean just setting DL_DIR as env before starting bitbake?12:06
hthiery[m]LetoThe2nd: here this seems not to works the downloads still land in the value from local.conf12:06
qschulzhthiery[m]: don't set it in the local.conf?12:12
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hthiery[m]LetoThe2nd: isnt there a way to override that?12:12
qschulzhthiery[m]: it depends on which order the files/env is parsed. It seems local.conf is parsed after the environment, therefore if you have a DL_DIR= in your local.conf, this one will override whatever you pass from the env12:14
LetoThe2ndhthiery[m]: no i mean, just do DL_DIR=.... bitbake whatever.12:14
qschulzhthiery[m]: also, I vaguely recall that passing vars like this does not work on all shells12:15
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LetoThe2ndah. sure, if you have a "=" assignment in your local conf....12:15
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hthiery[m]LetoThe2nd: qschulz I have to admit that I'm new to yocto and I use a present configuration/setup. With setting this up there is a local.conf that has the DL_DIR set but I would like to use another location for downloads12:17
LetoThe2ndhthiery[m]: try changing the assignment in local.conf for a ?=12:18
hthiery[m]LetoThe2nd: this is in the local.conf DL_DIR ?= "${BSPDIR}/downloads/" and when I now run DL_DIR=~/yocto-dl bitbake <target> is is still downloaded to the location specified in local.con12:26
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LetoThe2ndhthiery[m]: BSPDIR is not canonical, hence my guess it that your build setup has seom hidden magic somewhere.12:34
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hthiery[m]LetoThe2nd: hmmm .. the environment I use seems to be based on
hthiery[m]LetoThe2nd: in this the BSPDIR is used12:41
zibrihthiery[m]: i'm not sure DL_DIR is picked up from the environment by default, try `BB_ENV_EXTRAWHITE=DL_DIR DL_DIR=... bitbake`. you can check with bitbake -e if it's picked up or not.12:41
hthiery[m]zibri: this seems to do the trick12:43
zibricool! :)12:44
hthiery[m]zibri: is this somewhere documented in the manual?12:54
zibrihthiery[m]: yes, it's a bitbake variable (starts with BB_) (as opposed to layer variables) and is documented with bitbake; see bitbake-user-manual-metadata.rst and bitbake-user-manual-ref-variables.rst in bitbake/doc/bitbake-user-manual/12:59
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zibrii suppose DL_DIR also is a bitbake variable, but it's only a convention :)13:00
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zibri(when i say bitbake variable in this context, i mean it's a variable use internally by the tool itself.)13:00
LyghtnoxDoes anyone know how to add a kernel parameter in yocto?13:02
LyghtnoxI tried to add it in /etc/sysctl.conf but it didn't seem to work. I'm trying to enable the memory cgroup13:02
qschulzLyghtnox: for which board?13:03
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Lyghtnoxqschulz Raspberry pi 213:03
NiniC0c0There is a way inside Yocto to "auto-load" overlay (without any init-script or hack:)  ) maybe like the raspberry with a config file ?13:04
qschulzLyghtnox: either in cmdline.txt in boot partition or in bootargs environment variable in u-boot13:04
LetoThe2ndzibri: interesting, thanks! i didn't even think about the possibility that DL_DIR isn't whitelisted.13:06
qschulzNiniC0c0: look in U-Boot sources for boards using uEnv.txt13:06
qschulzuEnv.txt is just a file to be put in some partition accessible to u-boot. Then it's up to you to modify uEnv.txt how you want13:07
NiniC0c0qschulz is it the only way isn't it ? i'm listing all possibilities before start coding the solution :)13:07
zibriletothe2nd: you add it to extrawhite once and then forget about it :)13:07
qschulzNiniC0c0: it has nothing to do with Yocto. If you want to use DT overlays in U-Boot, then it's a UBoot "problem".13:08
Lyghtnoxqschulz I wasn't aware of the cmdline file. Thanks!13:09
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NiniC0c0qschulz Sure! sorry for asking. My bad13:09
qschulzyou could technically have a second u-boot environment in some partition that you then import with `env import`, it has its security challenges though (there's an allowlist now, so you can import only the variables you want from that second env)13:09
qschulzNiniC0c0: no no, don't you worry, I was just trying to highlight that we might not be the best support for this particular issue :)13:10
NiniC0c0qschulz Your are always the best support ;)13:10
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mcfriskon dunfell, after do_compile() failed, and I've modified SRC_URI with a patch, should bitbake apply the patch automatically without manually calling clean() task in between?13:18
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qschulzmcfrisk: yes, except if devtool is used13:22
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RPmcfrisk: yes, it should rerun fetch/unpack/patch as SRC_URI changed13:27
zeddiiRP: I'll poke at perf more today. If you've got a few mins at some point for that reproducibility crash course. I'll take you up on the offer.13:30
mcfriskqschulz RP: thanks, then either my setup or BSP's are breaking things..13:31
hthiery[m]zibri: qschulz thank you for pointing to that13:36
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JPEWqschulz: I'll give you a hefty discount on using Pyrex ;)14:06
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qschulzJPEW: deal14:12
RPzeddii, JPEW: I've just realised we could make a change to the selftest which might make things easier for people14:25
RPzeddii: so in your case you'd change targets to ['perf'] and sstate_targets to ['virtual/kernel'] and then run oe-selftest -r reproducible.ReproducibleTests.test_reproducible_builds14:26
RPzeddii: that should rebuild near enough just perf using sstate for the rest14:26
zeddiiahaha. gotcha. I'll grab that proposed patch and try that.14:26
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RPzeddii: if you run OEQA_DEBUGGING_SAVED_OUTPUT=/tmp/perf-diffoscope oe-selftest -r reproducible.ReproducibleTests.test_reproducible_builds it should dump diffoscope output into said directory too14:27
RPzeddii: I was trying to think about the easiest way to explain this and its easiest with that patch :)14:27
zeddiiAgreed. I've been there as well. A patch is easier than re-explaining or even a doc, since it is live in the code.14:28
RPzeddii: happy to take any other questions on reproducibility but I think this and simply running "strings /usr/bin/perf | grep <BUILDPATH>" is probably enough for you to get started with14:29
eyalhi all.14:29
eyalany of u might have created a yocto recipe for installing python app on virtualenv ?14:29
eyalmeaning i don't want to just install cetrain pip modules. i want the recipe to create virtualenv, install modules on it using pip so the main code could run as : `source venv/bin/activate && python3`14:29
zeddiiRP: that should be enough. I'll run with it.14:29
RPzeddii: I've not tested that patch but I'm sure you can figure out it and let me know if it works :)14:30
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RPeasier than trying to explain running two builds with partial sstate overlap etc14:30
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JPEWRP: Ah very good!14:36
JPEWI don't know if anyone is inheriting the class and overriding it for their own tests, but if so you might have the keep the "images" variable14:38
JPEWvmeson: Would be most likely?14:38
JPEWRP: you could do: `bitbake(' '.join(getattr(self, 'images', self.targets)))` to make it look for the old name first and use the new name if it's not found14:40
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RPJPEW: ok, will tweak14:49
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intera91sorry to repeat was afk, is anyone using the pyrex project?14:51
RPgreen reproducibility: - only 45 exclusions and working rpm :)14:52
RPdl9pf: ^^^, finally :)14:52
JPEWintera91: I'm the maintainer of Pyrex14:54
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thekappehello guys !15:23
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thekappeone question.. If I want to add an udev rules15:23
thekappewhich is the best recipe to use ?15:23
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qschulzthekappe: I don't think there's anything specific to it, I've been adding the files manually to /etc/udev/{rules,scripts} in handcrafted recipes15:26
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qschulzit's a simple install ${WORKDIR} ${D}15:27
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frayI'm blanking, it thought there was a bitbake target that would populate someplace under the TMPDIR with the native packages.  (I'm trying to run QEMU directly, not via runqemu).. any clue you can give me?16:05
JPEWbitbake -c addto_recipe_sysroot qemu-native ?16:12
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fraywhere does it get stuffed then?16:13
stefan-schmidt[mkhem: I played wanted to try plymouth on our musl enabled distro and saw that it fails building. As it needs rpmatch(), I added the external rpmatch-musl package as recipe and a patch to plymouth using it. Is that something you want feed back into meta-oe or somewhere else?16:13
JPEWThere's a script to do this for you....16:13
stefan-schmidt[mkhem: and why do I find you here and not on #oe as well :D16:13
stefan-schmidt[mkhem: btw, long time no see. The conferences kept us connected :-)16:14
JPEWfray: oe-run-native and oe-find-native-sysroot16:14
dl9pfRP: YAY !!16:14
RPdl9pf: I've merged it16:14
JPEWRP, dl9pf: \o/16:15
* RP is pleased to finally have some of those patches into master, its been a horrible patchset16:15
dl9pfsome bits were well-hidden16:15
frayI'm trying it now.. thanks16:16
RPfray: build-sysroots recipe too16:16
RPfray: depends whether you want a specific set of dependencies or everything that was previously built16:16
RPbuild-sysroots is a horrible hack and I'd expect can break in interesting ways16:17
frayproblem is that I can't 'runqemu' cause ther eis no qemu file.. so someone game me a magic line, which Ic an't run directly, since the libraries can't be found.. it's a never ending cycle of failure16:18
fraythe scripting 'seems' to be working for the most part..  I just hate this magic stuff because nobody bothered to add the right qemu vars to this machine.conf16:18
fray"but the reproducer is easier this way".. no doorknob.. it's not.. ARGH16:18
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JPEWRP: build-sysroots looks like some deep magic.... I can't quite grok how it actually puts anything in the sysroot :)16:19
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JPEWOr more specifically how it puts everything in the sysroot16:19
RPJPEW: From memory, I think it would likely just walk the sstate manifests16:20
RPso if you've built two things with overlapping files for example, tough luck...16:20
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frayand their reproducer instructions don't reproduce the problem..  I hate this crap16:23
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dakhouyaHi, I'm trying to use different version of lib boost in the same build. Is there someone that know how to achieve this? I'm using PREFERRED_VERSION_pn-boost to set one version, but don't find info to bind boost version to a specific recipe.16:26
thekappe@thanks qschulz!16:28
qschulzdakhouya: you need two recipes named slightly different so that they are different to the eyes of bitbake16:33
qschulzdakhouya: basically what was done for openssl 1.0 and 1.1 "cohabitation"16:33
dakhouyaThanks for the tip16:38
dakhouyaI'll try that!16:38
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khemzeddii: RP seeing some kernel error msgs on qemuarm
khemthis is latest master-next16:50
paulgdemand a refund!16:50
zeddiiI saw that in early January as well. Tried to fix it with the kernel command line, and it didn't take for all cases. Didn't have more time to muck around with it, so I moved on.16:51
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paulgreminds me of some pci horrors zeddii and I dealt with on arm versatile like 10y ago - nobody was quite sure what the qemu should do (even rmk) since the hardware was all dead and buried.16:52
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zeddiiactually, I lie. My patch to try and address it has been in tree since December 28th16:53
RPkhem: I've not see that...16:54
intera91@JPEW: sorry was afk16:54
intera91@JPEW: installed on vanilla ubuntu 20.04 as working on warrior branch for an AMD bsp. followed instructions to the letter16:55
intera91@JPEW: and it fails to create the temporary /tmp/tmp<whatever> and stops there16:56
* JPEW looks at some code16:57
JPEWIs /tmp writeable for your user?16:57
intera91@JPEW: yes16:57
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JPEWAny other output?16:59
intera91@JPEW: going to pastebin the output just a sec16:59
JPEWintera91: If you can send your pyrex.ini file, that would be helpful also17:00
* JPEW has to step away for a little bit, but I'll be back17:00
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khemRP:  I have upcoming gcc 11  too so perhaps thats related17:07
khembut I have seen similar errors for qemuppc64 last week which was not gcc 1117:08
khemRP: first pass on my world build with gcc 1117:08
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khemnot so bad17:08
intera91@jpew: the pyrex.ini is unchanged from generated by meta-pyrex/mkconfig > ./pyrex.ini17:11
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RPkhem: not bad, we've definitely seen worse17:14
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RPkhem: did you see the glibc disable isa patch on the list?17:14
khemthats like 50k tasks just oe core has 5 recipes I think17:15
khemyeah I have not checked my emails yet been on phone ever since I woke up17:16
khembut now I see,17:16
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khemyeah i think its ok to disable it. we use manual tunes so there is no need for this for us17:16
khembut real fix is something else17:17
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khemits a good feature actually for x86 maybe we need to have more tunes17:18
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RPkhem: I'm wondering why its showing up for them but not in our automated tests17:27
jonesv[m]Does somebody use connman around here? Seems dead, I can't get accepted to the mailing list. I thought it was more lightweight than network-manager, but maybe I should stick to nm? What do you guys use?17:27
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khemI think its poking at build machine17:30
khematleast thats how the checks are17:31
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khemfor this isa level stuff, they were not done for cross builds in mind :)17:31
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RPkhem: if its looking at the build machine that would break reproducibility? :/17:33
khemhowdy, yes long time I am rusted in my den here I wish the world was normal sooner yes rpmatch-musl is right approach you took and I would certainly like to have that17:33
khemstefan-schmidt:  perhaps we can have this library in oe-core along with other musl helpers17:34
khemstefan-schmidt:  re oe irc, I switched to using matrix and am using IRC bridge and lazily just joined one channel since I was experimenting but you remind me of joining it17:35
khemRP:  yes I know there was a fix that HJ sent for this but it seems thats not enough, atleast it solved the issues I was seeing17:36
khemRP:  you are not yet running into 8M size limit issue on core-image-minimal in -ctestimage ?17:37
RPkhem: no, I'm wondering why17:40
RPJPEW: I think I understand the slowness in the repro selftest - its the sync calls17:41
RPJPEW: happen between every cmp call17:41
intera91@JPEW: have you seen the pastebin?17:41
JPEWintera91: Ya, that's bizzare17:41
intera91@jpew: tell me about it17:41
JPEWIt seems like a permission problem... can you try `export TMPDIR=/some/other/path` ?17:42
JPEWRP: the `cmp` command calls sync?17:42
RPJPEW: it was an attempt to try and ensure we didn't have IO backlog on the workers17:43
RPJPEW: in oeqa/utils/commands.py17:43
JPEWAh, needs sync=False17:44
RPJPEW: yes, nice easy fix for that one17:44
JPEWPerhaps the default on that should be False :)17:45
intera91@JPEW: maybe moving forward: docker: Error response from daemon: invalid mount config for type "bind": bind source path does not exist: /tmp/ssh-xNiHN8B2DYbr/agent.2428.17:45
RPJPEW: that would remove the benefit elsewhere :/17:46
RPJPEW: we don't often run thousands of short commands17:46
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JPEWRP: Fair enough17:47
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RPJPEW: I've fast track merged that so watch it break somehow....17:48
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RPJPEW: watching a running build in top is painful17:48
JPEWintera91: Ya, it looks like (for some reason) the docker daemon can't access your /tmp17:50
* RP moves sync out the way to get the build to finish17:50
intera91@jpew:  ls -lah / | grep tmp17:50
intera91drwxrwxrwt  25 root root 124K Feb 26 17:50 tmp17:50
intera91what am i missing here17:51
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JPEWintera91: can you try `mkdir /tmp/foo; docker run -it --rm --mount type=bind,source=/tmp/foo,target=/tmp/foo busybox`17:53
JPEWThat will tell of if it's docker in general, or pyrex in particular17:53
RPJPEW: - compare the speed of rpm vs ipk :)17:53
intera91mkdir /tmp/foo; docker run -it --rm --mount type=bind,source=/tmp/foo,target=/tmp/foo busybox17:53
intera91docker: Error response from daemon: invalid mount config for type "bind": bind source path does not exist: /tmp/foo.17:53
intera91See 'docker run --help'@jpew:17:53
intera91foo exists17:54
RPsakoman: you really want that patch!17:56
JPEWRP: Sheesh. Indeed!17:56
JPEWintera91: Are you running the docker snap?17:56
intera91@jpew yes17:57
RPJPEW: over two hours vs less than two minutes :)17:57
JPEWintera91: Ah, that would do it!17:57
RPJPEW: I think I found the bottleneck that has been bugging me!17:57
JPEWRP: Cool.... that explains why we never see it locally either... the sync doens't matter so much when you aren't doing multiple builds at once17:57
intera91should I delete docker and resintall another way?17:57
intera91reinstall rather17:58
RPJPEW: right, there is an mlocatedb update happening on that machine which is why it was so slow17:58
JPEWintera91: Ya, I think it's just `apt install`17:59
RPhalstead: I do have to wonder if we really want/need mlocate doing that kind of thing...17:59
JPEWI'll update the readme17:59
intera91ok trying that17:59
JPEWRP: Or at least exclude the build directories17:59
intera91didn't know snap apps had these kind of limitations17:59
JPEWintera91: Ya, they run in confinement themselves, so they don't have access to the entire filesystem17:59
JPEWMost of the time, this doesn't matter, but when you do bind mounts it does18:00
intera91what  a wate of time am so sorry18:00
JPEWintera91: It's OK. I didn't even know docker snap was a thing. Now I can warn others :)18:00
intera91well there's you silver lining18:01
JPEWintera91: Do you have a GitHub username?18:02
sakomanRP: I haven't enabled the reproducible stuff in dunfell yet due to the load they put on the autobuilder.  I have the patches in a branch and do run builds with them on occasion.  Maybe this improves things enough that I can enable it by default.18:05
RPsakoman: you still run some basic reproducibility tests though?18:05
RPthis will help those too18:06
sakomanYes, I do18:06
dl9pfwow, 1h vs 2min is significant18:06
halsteadRP, mlocate should be disabled. Something to improve there.18:06
dl9pfand possibly opens the path for repro in dunfell ;)18:07
RPhalstead: I'll leave that one with you18:07
RPI'm sure we do have basic reproducibility testing in dunfell, just not world18:07
* RP heads afk18:08
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JPEWintera91:  :)18:13
intera91@jpew: excellent ;-)18:14
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khemRP:  bitbake master-next today is unhappy
khemRP:  I am seeing less space on core-image-minimal is there a place where buildhistory for AB is available ? I can quickly compare18:49
khemRP:  I have EXTRA_IMAGE_FEATURES_append = " package-management ssh-server-dropbear"18:50
khem I wonder if thats causing it18:50
khemperhaps yes because dropbear pulls in pam etc if distro features have pam so it could be it18:50
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khemdoes anyone know if the Linux on mars that landed recently is yocto project based ?19:31
georgem_homekhem: I gather they're using this board based on what I've heard so far. If that's true and they're using the vendor stuff provided it would be linaro linux. Maybe they've put something else on it though.19:33
khemgeorgem_home: for helicopter yes19:33
georgem_homefor anything other than that I don't know19:34
khemmain cpu is Powerpc 750@200mhz19:34
georgem_homeah ok. cool19:34
khemso Snapdragon maybe running yocto ?19:35
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rangergordIs there anything wrong with using Ubuntu Server as the distro for an Atom embedded system?19:35
rangergordSorry I know it's off-topic, but I'm specifically weighing Ubuntu Server vs Yocto19:36
rangergordI benchmarked my app and it runs like a dream on Ubuntu. I'm asking from a stability POV, or any other POV I'm missing.19:37
khemrangergord:  its ok I guess, you have to know your requirements and then weigh in what matters to you and you will make a good decision19:37
GeneralStupidrangergord: ubuntu is a linux distribution, yocto helps you build your own distritibutio. Its not comparable and it depends on your requirements19:37
rangergordmy requirements are having Postgres, having Qt libraries, letting me easily add dependencies, and being rock solid19:38
rangergordIs there anything innately inferior about using a server distro on an embedded system? Like some shortcoming I'm not thinking of?19:38
georgem_homeIt boils down to whether or not you're going to spend more time clobbering Ubuntu server to get what you need or building something custom with Yocto.19:38
rangergordfor sure Ubuntu would be faster for me. I use it daily. And I use Ubuntu Server on my home server.19:39
rangergordrabbit9911: thanks! gonna watch this19:39
GeneralStupidyocto produces an image file for you, which you could flash or upgrade...19:39
georgem_homerangergord: depends... if you have to customize the heck out of it for your application it still might be more of a pain in the long run. Just depends what you're doing.19:39
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georgem_homeand yeah a sane update solution would be part of what you'd need to customize on Ubuntu19:40
rangergordwhat sort of customizations are you referring to? Other than the boot logo/printout19:40
GeneralStupidSo if you are trying to built something like a router it will be more suitable19:40
rangergordnah it's a touchscreen device. meant to be on 24/7. gets rebooted during maintenance.19:41
GeneralStupidrangergord: that dosnt matter. customitazion means, build one package with an build configuration19:41
GeneralStupidnot really easy to change this in ubuntu19:42, no customizations. it's the same base image for everything.19:42
rangergordand same hardware19:42
GeneralStupidsame for me, i have the same base image for every device. And same hardware.19:42
GeneralStupidBut i still need customizations19:42
GeneralStupide.g. special kernel19:42
georgem_homewhat if you want to run with a read-only root and store your user settings in a different partition... this kind of thing19:42
GeneralStupidor in en EEPROM :-D19:43
GeneralStupidMaybe you want to have 2 partitions and failsafe upgrade...19:43
georgem_homeyup. that's what we do19:43
GeneralStupid(pointing to rauc)19:43
GeneralStupidsame here, i guess that would be PITA to realize with ubuntu19:43
rangergordah, I see what you mean19:43
GeneralStupidits fine to run ubuntu on such a machine, if its working for you19:44
georgem_homeyou just have to weigh your needs and see which way ends up taking more time in the long run19:44
khemif you want end to end control and also care for compliance and maintain it for long time yocto might be better and its bottom up approach means you only build what you need. Desktop distros start with a larger featureset and sometimes you start removing stuff and that does not work as well  as bottom up19:44
GeneralStupidkhem: also correct. My image is 25 Mb - and its big :-D19:44
rangergordkhem: I would be starting with the server distro though, then adding x1119:44
rangergordthe systems all have 120GB SSDs and 2GB of RAM. I hesitate to call it embedded19:45
khemI have seen cases where someone started with some desktop/server binary distro but then moved to use something custom because they realized thats best for them19:45
rangergordcoming from a 256MB system running Busybox and a 12yo kernel :)19:45
khemits not about just how much resources you have anymore19:46
khempeople are using yocto to build their servers and containers19:46
GeneralStupidits just a way to customize every aspect of your image. Maybe you could compare it more with Gentoo19:46
khemits how much you want to allow the overhead to be19:46
rangergordthing is, I'm on my own working on this. Literally the only "software" guy. I'm a decent Linux user, but I wouldn't be able to troubleshoot kernel issues on my own for example. So delegating to Ubuntu here seems safer.19:46
GeneralStupidand my 25M are really huge, it got big when i added systemd :)19:47
khemyeah community support is a big aspect19:47
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GeneralStupidrangergord: yes, true. Maybe just start there19:48
khemand this community is quite helpful I reckon :)19:48
rabbit9911rangergord: You could think of poky as equiv to ubuntu server. You can use it as is w/o much customization if you want.19:48
rabbit9911But it leaves the option open to massive customization if you need it19:48
rabbit9911What most people do is put poky in its own read-only directory and tweak what they need in their own custom layer. Then upgrading means just checking out the newer version of poky.19:49
khemrangergord: I would recommend to do some research and perhaps that will help e.g.
GeneralStupidwhat rabbit9911 says is exactly what we do...19:50
GeneralStupidIts really nice, i nightly built that image on jenkins19:50
GeneralStupidupgrade is done via rauc19:51
rangergordthanks. I'm gonna read that article then watch rabbit's 30 min youtube video19:51
rabbit9911Working on products with yocto/buildroot/openwrt and also one with redhat.. I would for sure say yocto is the best solution right now.19:52
rabbit9911Its worth the upfront investment19:52
khemgeorgem_home: so it seems the helicopter runs linux19:52
rangergordit's easy to say "Debian is just for prototyping" but you guys mentioned specific scenarios where it's harder, like the "two partitions with fallback" thing19:52
georgem_homekhem: yeah, hard to say if they used what comes with that dev kit or replaced it with something else19:53
khemso there is one planet where there are more systems running linux than windows :)19:53
georgem_homewell here too if you count Android19:54
rangergordI'll tell you one concern that's making me wary of another "custom distro". My previous system, was an old ARM, with Busybox. In addition to having to build my own packages (instead of something tested by Ubuntu/Debian ), I could never get reliable stack traces in core dumps. Like it was a total crapshoot whether a core dump would tell me what happened. I don't expect ever to have this issue on x6419:54
rangergordserver distro.19:54
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rangergordSo for an intermediate-level (and perhaps by the standard of this channel, novice) user, Ubuntu seems a safer choice19:55
georgem_homerangergord: yeah that sort of thing would probably be easier in Ubuntu. You can do it with yocto but I won't tell you I've never run into issues before.19:56
rangergordalthough, that issue might have been related to the ARM processor, so perhaps Poki would never  have similar issues on x6419:56
georgem_homewell also... to be clear...19:56
georgem_homeI was cross debugging. With ubuntu you'd probably debug on the target.19:56
georgem_homethat's just easier in general19:57
rangergordI would totally include gcc/gdb in my custom distro, if only for convenience :)19:57
rabbit9911Another consideration. Yocto is nice for tracking license and CVEs. So if you ever want to add secure boot (which is almost a must now a days) You will have to make sure you dont include GPLv3 libraries/apps in your image. Yocto can do this.19:59
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rabbit9911Also once you enable secure boot on target you lose the ability to use the package manager on target unless you have an overlayfs.20:01
khemI doubt they will use soc vendor SDK :)20:02
rangergordthat's good to know, although my systems are open. Users have shell access and root password.20:02
rabbit9911Also as soon as your company grows and you make a product that uses a super cheap arm64 or risc-v processor you will bet super hard up trying to get debian working on it.20:03
khemRP:  yeah the problem is including ssh server in minimal image and it tips over that df check20:03
stefan-schmidt[mkhem: I will have a look to update what I have here to oe-core master (we are on dunfell here) and prepare patches early next week.20:07
stefan-schmidt[mkhem: folks here also looking at llvm/clang as default toolchain. In combination with musl. Thought that might interest you :-)20:08
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rabbit9911stefan-schmidt[m: You are looking to add llvm/clang+musl as a default toolchain to poky?20:12
yatesdo some layers which are publicly available for yocto source code from the linaro project?20:12
stefan-schmidt[mrabbit9911: not poky itself but based on it20:12
rabbit9911 stefan-schmidt[m: As a layer then?20:13
stefan-schmidt[mrabbit9911: well, patches should go into the normal oe layers, but we plan to use it as default for our OpenHarmony distro20:14
stefan-schmidt[mso far we only switched to musl though, move to llvm/clang is on the agenda20:14
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rabbit9911stefan-schmidt[m: poky-tiny I believe uses musl as the default today. Is this just expanding support to more packages perhaps?20:25
stefan-schmidt[mrabbit9911: not sure what you mean. OE/yocto does have musl support for a long time now. And a llvm/clang layer as well20:27
stefan-schmidt[mrabbit9911: I just thought that khem would be interested to know that we are planning to take this for our distro in production20:28
stefan-schmidt[mnd sure, if we see problems we get the packages fixed. Like for plymouth.20:28
rangergordis anyone here using .NET Core on Yocto?20:29
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zeddiiRP: clearly I'm not going to be able to do the reproducible tests locally on my home builder. It's been running for 4 hours now. And that's with your patch.20:58
rangergordrabbit9911: finished the video, great stuff. Although, thanks to one of the people in the Q&A at the end let me find the debos project, which creates a Debian rootfs from a recipe you give it (apt files to instal,overlay fs, etc), AND it integrates ostree. I'm gonna look into that as a compromise.20:58
* zeddii calls it a day20:58
rangergordso a lot of "Debian golden master" shortcomings are negated with this20:59
rangergordI think if I was still using a legit embedded system instead of an Atom system I would have gone with Yocto for sure21:00
yatesis there a "reference" yocto project available for playing around / learning? e.g., something like the raspberry pi?21:04
rangergorddebos is based on debootstrap which is one of the tools the speaker recommended to build a robust/reproducible Debian if you're gonna insist on it21:04
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rabbit9911rangergord: Yep I heard that too. I would just be nervous if you ever think you would use a board that's not supported by debian out of the box. Usually the bean counters come in at some point and find they can save millions by using a cheap SBC based on some cellphone product. Usually what happens though is in 5 years if you still need to support21:15
rabbit9911your old product you start running out of disk space. Most of our yocto recipe mods are to remove features we dont need to save flash space. And when you A/B upgrade you run out of space fast.21:15
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rabbit9911I have been looking at NixOS on the side too. I don't think its ready to do what Yocto does.. but it's interesting.21:17
rangergordrabbit9911: no chance of that happening. we sell a handful of devices a year only. Any savings on hardware would have to be spent by increasing the size of the dev team, or me falling behind21:17
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khemstefan-schmidt:  yes, meta-clang is your way to glory 🙂 we use it here as well. Now working on using it default for everything earlier we only used it for certain large components like browser21:21
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khemone of these days I am thinking of creating meta-bsd and bring some BSD alternatives from OpebBSD/NetBSD/FreeBSD to yocto world as well dont know when though21:22
khemstefan-schmidt: building a clang based toolchain needs quite a bit of compute but once you have it built then it compiles other larger C++ files quite quickly compared to gcc21:23
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khemso Webkit or Chromium devs are happy21:24
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khemyates:  meta-96boards perhaps ?21:25
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khemrangergord: I know mono is well maintained in yocto world look at meta-mono
rangergordthanks but would be crazy to use Mono today. It's probably gonna be gone next year when the grand unification is complete.21:26
stefan-schmidt[mkhem: yup, meta-clang is what we are planning to use. A lot of things to sort out though next to the OE work. Keeping latest upstream find a way to reabse patches from an in house compiler team and last but not least we have meta-zephyr and meta-freertos on our agenda21:27
stefan-schmidt[mkhem: lots of things to juggle, but we will get there eventually.21:27
rangergordOK it's not going anywhere, but new development will only be on .NET Core21:27
* stefan-schmidt[m is happy that he is not doing the toolchain work though ;-)21:27
khemstefan-schmidt: cool, I think you can easily plugin your own fork of llvm-repo into meta-clang if you like, I think I have left way for that21:28
rabbit9911rangergord: Sounds like its worth a try then! Just from my POV I have been at 3 companies now that have moved to yocto from various other solutions and its always super painful because it happens after you they have 10+ products and 10 years cruft that needs to be duplicated or changed at risk of thousands of products in the field.21:28
khemalthough I would love if folks maintain their changes as patches and work on upstreaming them21:28
stefan-schmidt[mkhem: the aim from our OSTC side is really upstream and push our compiler team to rebase on latest and hopefully even submit upstream21:29
stefan-schmidt[mwe will see how that goes :-)21:29
khemgood deal21:29
khemas of now we can do everything we do with gcc in oe-core with clang too21:30
stefan-schmidt[mIt feels good to work with OE again after so many years21:30
khemyou can build eSDKs too21:30
rabbit9911You still need gcc for kernel though right?21:30
stefan-schmidt[mthat's cool and likely to be interesting for our SDK work at some point21:31
khemgood to hear stefan-schmidt21:31
stefan-schmidt[mrabbit9911: quite a bit of it does not need gcc anymore21:31
khemrabbit9911: sort of, I have run a clang compiled kernel on rpi4 though21:31
stefan-schmidt[mdepends on your config, maybe some drivers21:31
khemglibc is another key piece which is joined at hip with gcc21:32
khemu-boot works with clang21:32
khembusybox does too21:32
khemso essentially if you are ok with musl then your base system is set21:32
khemkernel for x86/arm/arch64/riscv64 is getting better with time21:33
khemwith clang21:33
stefan-schmidt[mFor me the usage of both musl and clang for everything feels like a bold move. But our toolchain expert is in favour of it and I can clearly see the benefits21:34
stefan-schmidt[mWe need to validate quite a bit though. Say musl with systemd :-)21:34
khemyes it is bold move but musl is everywhere now and so is clang so perhaps not a bad time to start21:34
khemyeah musl+systemd is a PITA and will remain so, I have given up on that21:35
rabbit9911I keep wanting to try s6-init in place of systemd :)  which does support musl21:35
stefan-schmidt[mand for us an intersting part is how musl plays with zephyr and freertos and maybe orther RTOS systems21:35
kheminfact for many systems I care for systemd is not as appealing anyway21:35
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khemmusl has FDPIC port ( nommu ) for cortex-M21:36
khemso you will be well serverd21:36
rabbit9911I get why systemd is supported in yocto but at the same time is feels like a bad fit for embedded devices.21:36
khemits convenient for sue21:36
stefan-schmidt[mrabbit9911: everbody defines embedded differntly. Do we talk 512kb flash or 8GB?21:37
stefan-schmidt[mkhem: we will see how this pans out. We start bold and make plans with the best judgement we have and we will see if we hit walls :-)21:38
khemstefan-schmidt:  yeah its getting there, we have issues on systems with 1G of RAM21:38
khemstorage really does not matter21:38
khemeverything is competeing for compute and RAM21:38
rabbit9911Then you add glib and dbus.21:38
khemso one has to know how much journald can thrash21:38
stefan-schmidt[myeah, so "embedded" can be everything from 64KB to 6G :-)21:38
stefan-schmidt[mdepending on who talks about it21:39
khemif you have range of products then having a common profile matters for scale21:39
stefan-schmidt[mthat is the idea yes, a wide range actually. Thus the RTOS kernel part next to Linux21:40
rabbit9911even at 6G.. The less on the device the less you have to maintain21:40
yatesi downloaded yocto. shouldn't i be able to build poky by just running "make"?
khemI have learnt that starting small at platform level is key21:41
yatesi downloaded like this: git clone -b gatesgarth git://
yatesthis is under lubuntu 18.04.521:43
khem10 steps -
khemstefan-schmidt: thats a good approach, remember its not the platform or tools which your products will differentiate on, but the services and apps, so OS is kind of a necessary evil, ideally if I could say the apps with minimum OS overhead that is preferred21:46
stefan-schmidt[mkhem: I got that memo a long time ago. It has the nice benefit that its way easier to collaborate on these "uninteresting" pieces. I like that a lot. :-)21:51
rabbit9911khem: +1  Its always tempting to take the new thing and all of the extra stuff you dont need because its easy. The hidden cost of security/stability/general maintenance are usually an after thought.21:52
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RPzeddii: was that in the initial build? Hopefully better once sstate is populated?22:01
zeddiiyah. it just completed.22:03
zeddiibut I see no mention of perf :D22:03
zeddiieven with me putting it in as the target22:03
zeddiiI'll investigate on Monday22:03
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smurrayyates: see
RPzeddii: did you remove perf from the exclusions list?22:31
RPzeddii: I had forgotten you might need to do that :/22:32
RPobvious in hindsight22:32
RPzeddii: now you have hot sstate it should be faster22:32
RPzeddii: I'm guessing "different_excluded=1" was perf22:32
v0nhum I still get this "No IMAGE_CMD defined for IMAGE_FSTYPES entry 'container'" :-(22:33
RPJPEW: diffoscope upstream have fixed the html diff size "hang" :)22:35
yatessmurray: thanks!22:38
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