Friday, 2022-06-03

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kroonRP, the bitbake docs talks about the weak default value assignment operator, ??=, saying "the assignment is made at the end of the parsing process". To me that is not quite correct, a more correct description would be "a default value which the variable will expand to if no other value has been assigned". Does that sound right to you ?07:21
landgrafkroon: +107:23
kroonat least to me, "end of the parsing process" sounds like after all .conf's and recipes have been parsed. but I can have an immediate expansion in the middle of a recipe, either via := or an "include ${foobar}" statement, or somet other way07:24
landgrafkroon: it was my impression as well when I was reading the doc before sending the patch. But I have qschulz's presentation bookmarked which has right example of usage :)07:25
kroonlandgraf, oh yeah, it was your email that got me curious about the docs07:26
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kroonon a different topic, make does immediate key expansion, contrary to bitbake, but I suppose there are good reasons for that (?)07:38
landgrafkroon: this?07:42
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landgrafkroon: magic ...07:58
qschulzoh no08:01
qschulznot updating my talk to include this08:01
qschulzRP: how do you feel about latest patch from amahnui[m] to add the obsolete header on the old docs? landgraf and kroon just used the old one probably without knowing and it drives me crazy how often this happens. Something I can help with? (except reviewing better in the first place :) )08:04
landgrafqschulz: old one is from google. it happens all the time08:05
kroonqschulz, is obsolete ?08:05
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landgrafkroon: I think qschulz meant :)08:05
kroonis also obsolete ?08:06
landgrafyou corrected yourself but it happens to me pretty often if I google bitbake variables :/08:07
landgrafSo I prefer grep over google for bitbake :)08:07
kroonqschulz, which one did you refer to as obsolete ?08:08
landgrafkroon: version 1.608:08
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kroonwell regardless, the latest docs are incorrect to me08:19
qschulzkroon: landgraf: both08:28 is the correct one08:28
qschulzkroon: ah sorry, // this one's fine08:29
qschulzbut the links you sent before I started writing were outdated docs08:29 stops at 3.1.408:29
qschulzit's "easy" now because the latest version is actually using the new override syntax so anything from would actually show the old syntax (_ instead of :)08:32
kroonqschulz, what do you think of the ??= description ?08:33
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qschulzkroon: what I believe is that the whole operators/override syntax needs some rework to make it more accessible to beginners08:34
qschulzMy talk was basically a way start this work and motivate myself, but I happened to switch jobs since then, barely working on Yocto anymore and too much work for my one man team (excuses, excuses)08:35
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qschulzkroon: but we're always open to contribution :)08:35
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qschulzso just send a patch and we can discuss it there with other people :)08:36
qschulzyou don't need my approval to send anything08:36
qschulz(i'm not even the maintainer :) )08:36
kroonqschulz, i dont mind fixing the documentation, but I thought I'd first check in here if I understood the ??= operator correctly08:36
kroonthe parties who would know I assume would all be in here08:37
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qschulz??= is basically "if not a single other "=" (+= =+ = := ?= =. .=) operator was used anywhere else in any of the files parsed for the recipe (.conf, .inc, .bbclass, .bb, .bbappend)08:37
qschulzand ONLY the last ??= being parsed will be used08:38
qschulzI do not know what happens if you have:08:38
qschulzX ??= foo08:38
qschulzY := "${X}"08:38
qschulzX = bar08:38
qschulzI assume Y = foo and X = bar08:38
qschulzbut haven't tested08:39
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landgrafqschulz:on kirkstone: Y="foo" X="bar"08:42
kroonqschulz, thats what happens, and what I also expected, but to me it doesn't match the documentation "the assignment is made at the end of the parsing process"08:43
qschulzkroon: I guess we can add something about the first := that mentions the variable08:43
kroonqschulz, I suggested "a default value which the variable will expand to if no other value has been assigned" above08:44
qschulzkroon: does not explain the := trick08:44
kroonqschulz, why not ? := is immedaite expansion08:45
qschulzkroon: of *another* variable08:45
kroonqschulz, I don't follow08:46
qschulzkroon: your sentence does not explain what happens when X ??= foo Y := "${X}" X = "bar"08:46
qschulzbecause we're talking about the effect of ??= operator on X08:46
qschulzbut the effect relies on the behavior of other variables immediate expansion operator (:=)08:47
qschulzand where they are located in the parsing order08:47
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qschulzkroon: I am very good at writing super complex sentences to cover all possible use cases, so much that they are unreadable :D08:48
qschulzso, we'll FOR SURE need examples to highlight this because I'm guessing whatever the sentence we'll come up with, it'll not be really clear to everybody, especially beginners08:49
qschulzalso, I am not a native speaker08:50
qschulzand sometimes valid sentences are really hard to understand08:50
kroonqschulz, can you expand on what you mean with "but the effect relies on the behavior of other variables immediate expansion operator (:=)" ?08:51
RPqschulz: I would be happy to have that patch. Wasn't there an issue I replied about?08:51
kroonbecause I do think it is possible to write technical documentation that covers everything. the glibc manpages are very good at that08:51
RPkroon: I'd be ok with something like that. End of the parsing process isn't entirely correct08:53
qschulzkroon: you need to specify that the := operator of ANOTHER variable (Y) using THIS variable (X), will trigger ??= to be used/expanded even though there are other operators after in the parsing process08:53
qschulzor that := basically triggers "one" end of a parsing process for all involved variables08:54
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qschulzRP: you did highlight an issue on v16 (two writes, duplicating the content), but a v17 was sent the same day as your review08:55
kroonqschulz, that is what := does, it is immediate expansion, all of the right-hand-side will be expanded immediatley.08:55
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kroonqschulz, as I see it that is covered by the suggested text08:55
qschulzRP: didn't check the patch though, nor ran it08:56
RPqschulz: ok, I'll try and rerun my tests. I had probably missed the new version08:57
* RP wonders why he is here on a holiday08:57
* qschulz shouts at RP to stop working on a holiday08:58
kroonRP, hah. thanks, ill send a doc patch then. go away now08:58
RPqschulz: I powered up the machines now :/08:58
qschulzRP: we've had this issue for months now, it can wait a few more days/weeks ;)08:59
* RP also has an issue to debug before we lose the data off one of the AB workers08:59
qschulzplease go away :)08:59
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RPIt is fine, I'm not in any state to do much else anyway, that is a different story09:00
qschulzkroon: i'm not going to fight the patch, but please add an example for the := thingy09:00
qschulzRP: what about resting :)09:00
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kroonqschulz, yes, I will put in some example09:01
qschulzkroon: super cool, thanks for improving the docs :)09:01
kroonthen if we could make the surrounding double-quotes on the RHS-value optional, I'd be happy09:03
qschulzkroon: this is not a docs-only change, right?09:04
qschulz(one of the issue with no double-quotes for RHS is how do you handle leading/trailing space which might be important in :append/:prepend09:05
kroonqschulz, the double-quote thing ? no, that would require changes in the parser code09:05
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kroonqschulz, for that you would use double-quotes. but for the rest 99% lines of a recipe, you wouldn't need them09:06
RPqschulz: that script in the v17 patch doesn't even run09:06
qschulzRP: sigh...09:07
RPqschulz: I'll just fix things at this point09:07
qschulzRP: that was what I was about to suggest I'd do09:07
qschulzRP: sorry for making you powering up machines for a non-working patch :/09:08
RPqschulz: well, I did want to get this in. I nearly just fixed it last time09:08
RPqschulz: I can see html files where it adds the closing </div> but not the header09:14
RPqschulz: this might be eclipse stuff actually so let me purge those09:14
RPqschulz: second issue is duplicate additions probably due to symlinks09:20
qschulzRP: not sure, os.walk does not follow into symlinks?09:22
RPqschulz: ok, something else is wrong them09:26
qschulzRP: well, os.walk does not go into directories which are symlinks, but if we have symlinks of files, that's a different story09:27
jclsn[m]Is there a variable that holds the current architecture which is building? I need to manually write a do_compile and append the archtitecture09:28
jclsn[m]$KARCH I guess09:29
qschulzjclsn[m]: bitbake -e <some-recipe> would probably help you find it :)09:29
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jclsn[m]qschulz: I know there architecutre09:30
jclsn[m]I just want to automize building for arm or aarch6409:30
jclsn[m]I want to build btop
jclsn[m]and he doesn't support autotools09:31
qschulzjclsn[m]: bitbake -e returns all variables, so you could find the one you're interested in09:31
qschulzthat's all I meant :)09:31
jclsn[m]Pretty long output09:32
qschulz(basically, you know which string you're after, so just "reverse" search it09:32
RPqschulz: I just wiped things and reran and "grep div.*outdate * -R | sort | uniq -c | sort" shows two copies of the header in many manuals09:32
RPalways the symlinked ones09:32
jclsn[m]But there must be some variable that contains the architecture in a recipe09:33
qschulzjclsn[m]: grep "^[A-Z_0-9]*=.*arch" or something?09:33
jclsn[m]Ah thanks09:35
jclsn[m]TRANSLATED_TARGET_ARCH will work I guess09:35
RPqschulz: we have file symlinks09:37
qschulzRP: if os.is_symlink(filename): continue right after the for filename in filenames?09:41
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RPqschulz: right, I'm on it :) (and it is os.path.islink() )09:42
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qschulzRP: mmmm seems to apply to directories only?09:43
qschulz"if path refers to an existing directory entry that is a symbolic link"09:43
qschulzor is "directory entry" another way of saying "anything inside this directory" ?09:43
RPqschulz: right, which is why we need to add a check at the file level. We have both directory and file symlinks09:44
qschulzRP: yes but the directory symlinks we don't care? because os.walk should go into them09:44
qschulzshould NOT go into them09:45
RPqschulz: the directory links are fine, the problem is the file symlinks09:45
Black-bubbleanyone has some experience with adding imagemagick into yocto?09:46
Black-bubbleI've built the recipe and have the CLI tools but it keeps failing due to an apparent font issue.09:46
Black-bubble```convert: unable to read font `helvetica' @ error/annotate.c/RenderFreetype/1384.```09:46
Black-bubbleRunning `convert -list font` does show there are no fonts installed.09:46
Black-bubbleOn the other side `/usr/share/fonts/truetype` does contain different types of `DejaVuSans` fonts.09:46
qschulzRP: yes, but I'm not sure os.path.islink() actually applies to files? the documentation is confusing09:47
RPqschulz: it is working09:47
qschulzRP: cool09:48
RPqschulz: pushed with some fixes. Lets see what happens09:52
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Black-bubbleOk, found a workaround.10:10
Black-bubbleYocto does install some font's but imagemagick doesn't know how to find them.10:10
Black-bubbleFortunatelly, It's possible to pass an absolute path to `convert` pointing directly to the `tff` file:10:10
Black-bubble`convert -font /usr/share/fonts/truetype/DejaVuSansMono.ttf  image.png -gravity North -pointsize 50 -annotate +0+100 'Custom text on image' image.png`10:10
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qschulzRP: should I trigger a build from the autobuilder (is that even possible with an anonymous user???)10:30
qschulzRP: thanks for taking care of this, it was something that really bothered me10:31
qschulzkroon: there was a misunderstanding between us10:41
qschulzwhich explained probably why it was hard to agree on something :)10:41
qschulzFor me, the example you give should have been W = x and W=z10:41
qschulzand not W=z*10:42
qschulzcan't write10:42
qschulz(i checked your example, and it is correct)10:42
LetoThe2ndqschulz: out of context, that looks really confused.10:43
qschulzfor me, W ??= x followed by A := "${W}" would have made the W ??= x into W = x10:43
qschulzbut it does not10:43
qschulzwhich is different from what make does I think?10:43
qschulzLetoThe2nd: owuldn't be the first time :D10:43
qschulzLetoThe2nd: is the context10:43
LetoThe2ndqschulz: *sigh* now its boring.10:44
qschulzLetoThe2nd: I'm upset because I get more and more content for the talk that alreeady does not fit in a 45min slot10:46
LetoThe2ndqschulz: hey rostedt did 160+ slides in 50 minutes!10:46
qschulzLetoThe2nd: did you know about this one?10:46
qschulzLetoThe2nd: I am no native speaker, and rostedt has years of experience doing this10:46
LetoThe2ndqschulz: of course i did NOT. I'm just the clown on the stage, I actually know a lot less than people think I do.10:47
LetoThe2ndqschulz: i believe in you! you can do 120 slides in 30 minutes!10:49
RPqschulz: only registered users can trigger10:50
RPqschulz: I triggered one10:51
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kroonqschulz, "for me, W ??= x followed by A := "${W}" would have made the W ??= x into W = x"11:04
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kroonqschulz, yes, that is tricky, which is why I tried to emphasize that ??= changes what the *expanded* value will be, if it is currently undefined11:05
kroonbut it doesn't assign any value11:05
kroonin the common sense11:05
kroonqschulz, does that make sense to you ?11:06
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mrybczyn[m]ernstp: the new image file has a bug when CVE_CHECK_REPORT_PATCHED != "1" and it was "1" before. In text mode only. Basically it takes the old result partial file, even if it does not correspond to the current build. I'm wondering how to solved it: either clean up partial files after build or write empty files if we have empty results11:31
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mrybczyn[m]ernstp: for JSON to avoid that I created the index file11:33
jclsn[m]How is it possible that some libraries in the image are not landing in the sysroot of the SDK? I can use the library just fine, but it is not listed in the target manifest11:43
jclsn[m]I am building the SDK with bitbake image -c populate_sdk. From my understanding everything should be contained11:44
mcfriskjclsn[m]: maybe the -dev package dependecy to real shared library package is removed somehow11:51
kriiveI need to backport Go from master to dunfell. I already copied the necessary files and fixed the syntax. Is there a way to make some recipes build with the new Go and some other with the provided one?11:52
qschulzRP: seems ,like we're not there yet? the html and css files aren't modified in the old docs website. e.g.
qschulzkroon: I understand with the example but that was something that was unexpected to me11:55
qschulzand also it's a bit too complex to be the only example11:55
qschulzI'm not sure what we should do with := operator examples11:56
kroonqschulz, the := operator examples are, although a little hard to follow, correct as far as I can tell. as for referencing ":=" under the "??="-section, I don't have a problem with that. I don't think people are expected to read the manual from start to finish ?12:01
jclsn[m]<mcfrisk> "jclsn: maybe the -dev package..." <- What is the dev packagae dependency? It is a development image, which requires all the core image packages12:01
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qschulzkroon: yes. we expect people to read the whole thing12:02
qschulzit's just going to take them about 4 days without breaks12:02
qschulz(I did it once, to review the docs after the migration to Sphinx... never doing it ever again)12:03
qschulzkroon: the "difficult" part for me is that people will most likely look for something specific12:03
kroonqschulz, I've never read it from start to end. I use it to lookup specific things12:04
qschulzand this := thingy is a pretty big gotcha12:04
landgrafkroon: Having a comment that ":=" will be decribed below is good IMO12:04
landgrafsorry for nitpicking :)12:04
kroonlandgraf, yes I agree, I'll add that12:04
Guest87anybody else having problems building ncurses on dunfell? Patch 3 is failing to apply on my setup12:04
qschulzGuest87: does it happen when doing a build from scratch (no tmp) with vanilla poky checked out in dunfell branch?12:05
Guest87qschulz: I will try that12:10
kroonlandgraf, well, I don't wanna say "see below", in case someone decides to shuffle the sections in the future12:13
landgrafkroon: makes sense12:13
kroonlandgraf, so I'll just add a comment "Immediate variable expansion"12:13
kroonlandgraf, don't think I can reference sections in code examples either12:14
landgrafreader should be smart enough to press Ctrl-F :)12:14
qschulzkroon: can't in literal blocks in sphinx unfortunately12:15
qschulz(which is started with ::)12:15
kroonqschulz, ok. I will say, sphinx is a heck of a lot faster compared to what was there before, IIRC12:20
qschulzkroon: that's the consensus yes :)12:22
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Guest87qschulz: I deleted my tmp directory, ncurses package still fails on dunfell, on commit 0ca0aec7aa3ad9bcb3f8936a7e876f34866f2f6812:39
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Guest87qschulz: nevermind it was related to a SRCREV_PN statement i had in a distro config12:51
qschulzGuest87: good you found the issue :)12:55
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jclsn[m]I have a really weird error I don't understand. I am setting a password with the extrausers class and am doing it exactly as in the documentation, but when I try to log in this password doesn't worrk. It just breaks the password13:15
jclsn[m]Here is the part of the image recipe... (full message at
jclsn[m]Could it be that adding debug tweaks after this, breaks it somehow?13:20
qschulzjclsn[m]: and somepassword is actually the hash version of your password and not the plaintext password?13:20
jclsn[m]It is plaintext13:21
qschulzjclsn[m]: which version of yocto are you using?13:21
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jclsn[m]That is what I am doing13:23
qschulzjclsn[m]: no?13:23
jclsn[m]Ah I need this password hash?13:23
jclsn[m]I just wanted to set some plain password. Is that not possible?13:23
qschulznot anymore13:24
jclsn[m]Since honister?13:25
jclsn[m]My colleague is on hardknott and can do it13:25
RPqschulz: the old docs are meant to redirect to the new. Can you collect up some example urls which aren't working and email halstead, cc me please13:25
qschulzjclsn[m]: "The -P (--clear-password) option can no longer be used with useradd and usermod entries in EXTRA_USERS_PARAMS."13:26
jclsn[m]I don't have this mkpasswd13:27
qschulzthis should help you find which package provides it for your host distribution13:28
jclsn[m]whois on Ubuntu13:31
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jclsn[m]Still doesn't work... (full message at
jclsn[m]root@my-machine's password:13:58
jclsn[m]You are required to change your password immediately (administrator enforced).13:58
jclsn[m]Permission denied, please try again.13:58
jclsn[m]Trying to login via ssh if that makes a difference14:02
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jclsn[m]Well enough for today14:12
jclsn[m]Have a nice weekend guys!14:12
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jclsn[m]I think something is wrong in the shadow file14:36
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sotaoverridehow do I use a single recipe to insall multiple systemd services. What would the SYSTEMD_SERVICE:${PN} = "......" syntax look like in such a scenario?15:19
ptsnevesif they are all in the main package you just add the services to that variable15:22
sotaoverrideptsneves so like so like SYSTEMD_SERVICE_${PN} = "var.mount1 var.mount2 var.mount3" or comma seperated. blanking out here a little with the syntax. Do i leave a spave after the last service name..15:26
sotaoverrideptsneves: no commas I guess. I found this example, just no commas I guess I found this example meta-openembedded/meta-oe/recipes-extended/cfengine/${PN} = "cfengine3.service cf-apache.service cf-hub.service cf-postgres.service15:30
ptsnevesno commas just spaces15:31
ptsnevesyep, grepping the source is a good way to find these details15:31
ptsnevesqschulz nowhere does it state it is a space separated list, or am i missing something15:32
qschulzptsneves: not mentioned and could/should be15:35
qschulzprobably in the variable definition though and not the class15:35
qschulzor let's say, the most important place where this needs to be defined is in the variable glossary15:36
ptsnevesdo you mean here?15:41
ptsnevesby the way sotaoverride in yocto the convention is to space separate. Not great but that is how it is15:41
ptsneveswhich means do not create file names with spaces :D  We are in the 90s still :)15:41
qschulzptsneves: this one needs to mention it15:42
qschulzwe have a few occurrences in the docs of "space-separated list" so one more won't hurt :)15:43
ptsnevessorry when i said here i forgot to paste the link. Yes it does not mention it. I could try to create a patch but i dont even know where the docs are anymore nor the mailing list. :(15:44
qschulzit's even more than "it won't hurt", we should actually fix it because it's not mentioned it's possible to have more than one element in there15:44
qschulzptsneves: yocto-docs is the git repo15:44
qschulzdocs at is the ML15:44
qschulz for where to do the change15:45
ptsnevesok will do. Just finishing some more doc draft for gdb. (i hate mailing lists :(  )15:50
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ptsnevesqschulz would this work?16:23
ptsnevesgit send-email -n2  --subject='SYSTEMD doc minor fix' --to="" --subject-prefix="PATCH"16:23
ptsnevesi added 2 patches as the connection of SYSTEMD_PACKAGES and SYSTEMD_SERVICE are not detailed in the manual16:24
ptsnevesok sent the patches. Almost sent the patches as diffs from poky instead of yocto-docs.16:39
ptsnevesHave a nice weekend y'all16:40
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yudjinn[m]I would like to make a recipe to install python 3.6 to a custom path, but Im not really sure how to go about it.17:58
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halsteadkanavin: I think is stalled and I plan to reboot the worker it's on soon. Do you want to look at it at all?18:34
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yatesare there requirements on the compiler imposed by MISRA C? if so, does the compiler in the typical sdk meet them?19:48
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abellonithe question being why would you want to comply with MISRA C :)20:30
abellonithe code on the F35 complies with misra C20:31
abelloniand see what the result was ;)20:31
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abelloniexample: MISRA Rule 82: Functions will have a single exit point.20:39
abelloniand you end up with convoluted functions that are actually harder to read20:39
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Habbieabelloni, lol20:54
Habbieabelloni, that's terrible20:54
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halsteadkanavin: I was wrong, it finished green.21:42
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yatesabelloni: because my customer wants it?22:05
abelloniyates: very good reason ;)22:09
abelloniI guess you'll need a commercial solution22:10
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manuelI would like to send a patch for a file in poky. The file has a different content on dunfell and master branch. How do I specify which branch my patch is based on? I'd like to see it on dunfell branch eventually.23:48
smurraymanuel: generally you submit to master and then ask for it to be backported, see

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