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| kergoth | Welp, started a new job on Monday, I'm working for Pano AI on their devices for monitoring smoke and wildfires. Interesting stuff with real world impact, not sure how much time I'll get for open source contributions, though, given the startup pressure. Looking forward to finding out, though. | 01:02 |
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| RP | Two reproducibility issues in master: https://valkyrie.yocto.io/pub/repro-fail/oe-reproducible-20251119-w2h74ptw/packages/diff-html/ :/ | 07:46 |
| RP | grub and glibc | 07:46 |
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| kanavin | on first glance both seem like autogenerated files with non-deterministic ordering | 08:18 |
| kanavin | the diff even has an explicit hint: 'Ordering differences only' | 08:18 |
| kanavin | I'll try to take a look, but need to start laundry! | 08:18 |
| kanavin | it's probably not something new but something very rare :-/ | 08:20 |
| mcfrisk | grub issue looks eerily familiar to what RP already fixed before with patches which are in upstream already | 08:21 |
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| landgraf | kergoth: Startup pressure is not very compatible with open sources contribution :( | 08:53 |
| kanavin | or decent software quality, for that matter | 08:54 |
| RP | mcfrisk: I did wonder if I'd seen something like it before... | 08:54 |
| landgraf | kanavin: Don't rub salt in the wound :( | 08:57 |
| kanavin | as long as those joining startups are aware what they're getting into \-0-/ | 08:57 |
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| landgraf | well. I didn't expect it's to be so.... startup code | 08:58 |
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| kanavin | landgraf, it often doesn't help that startups are often made of excitable recent graduates with some knowledge of computer science, but no experience of developing software at scale | 08:59 |
| kanavin | and then investors apply relentless pressure to deliver and ship | 09:00 |
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| eduardootero | Hi community, hope you are well. I have a question to throw here in case anybody has the time to shed some light for me. | 09:14 |
| eduardootero | I am using a vendor layer (meta-phytec) which has a bb file under "dynamic-layers/fsl-bsp-release/recipes-bsp/imx-mkimage/imx-boot-phytec_1.0.bb" (https://github.com/phytec/meta-phytec/blob/master/dynamic-layers/fsl-bsp-release/recipes-bsp/imx-mkimage/imx-boot-phytec_1.0.bb), which claims to be only compatible with machine "mx8-nxp-bsp". I have | 09:14 |
| eduardootero | selected in my MACHINEOVERRIDES, the "mx8-nsp-bsp", however this bb recipe file is not being processed during the build... | 09:14 |
| eduardootero | I am using "meta-freescale", which comes with the configuration files for imx-mkimage (https://github.com/Freescale/meta-freescale/tree/master/recipes-bsp/imx-mkimage) in my yocto build. | 09:14 |
| eduardootero | Am i missunderstanding the way MACHINEOVERRIDES works? | 09:14 |
| eduardootero | Thanks in advance for any possible answer that will help me to learn/understand what I am doing wrong here. | 09:14 |
| kanavin | eduardootero, items under dynamic-layers are usually subject to another layer being added to the build configuration | 09:17 |
| kanavin | in this case, fsl-bsp-release | 09:17 |
| kanavin | eduardootero, see here https://github.com/phytec/meta-phytec/blob/master/conf/layer.conf | 09:18 |
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| khem | don't forget the hyper-scalars of today like google, meta, microsoft etc. were started by their founders when they were recent graduates, some dropouts :) | 09:24 |
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| eduardootero | kanavin thank you for the answer. I do not have the fsp-bsp-release added into my bblayers.conf so that could definitely be an issue... I will try to remediate this. | 09:32 |
| eduardootero | I knew I was doing something wrong from the Yocto-basics point of view, it did not look like a meta layer vendor specific problem. | 09:32 |
| eduardootero | kanavin I am glad I brought up the question in the forum. Thanks again :-d | 09:32 |
| eduardootero | :-) | 09:32 |
| kanavin | khem, the story with microsoft's first product, the basic interpreter for altair computer is that paul allen wrote the bootloader on the plane as he was on the way to demo it to them | 09:34 |
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| kanavin | the actual interpreter was written on a 8008 emulator | 09:34 |
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| kanavin | this is like the definition of the startup coding culture :D | 09:34 |
| kanavin | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_BASIC | 09:35 |
| khem | yes, move fast, break things | 09:35 |
| khem | OpenAIs demo to Bill Gates is similar story | 09:35 |
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| khem | he wanted it to get A/A+ on AP Bio exam | 09:36 |
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| khem | me -> sleep() | 09:40 |
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| aduskett | What would be the preferred cache directory for dnf to use for repository cache? By default it uses /var/cache/dnf (which had to be patched for dnf-native as that is a hardcoded path on the host) | 10:33 |
| aduskett | Should that directory point to sysroot, sysroot_native, or target? | 10:34 |
| rburton | aduskett: for rootfs construction? | 10:34 |
| aduskett | rburton, yes indeed | 10:34 |
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| aduskett | when refresh is called specifically | 10:35 |
| aduskett | rburton, here is an issue for what the problem is: https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf5/issues/2520 | 10:37 |
| aduskett | If I remove `geteuid() == 0 ? SYSTEM_CACHEDIR` then dnf defaults to /tmp/${tmpdir}/.cache but that doesn't seem like a good idea | 10:38 |
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| kanavin | aduskett, what does dnf4 do? | 11:05 |
| kanavin | does it use rootfs/var/cache/dnf? | 11:06 |
| aduskett | kanavin, hmmm, good question. I will check | 11:07 |
| rburton | yes, i'd have said $rootfs/var | 11:07 |
| kanavin | generally dnf should be directed as if it's running on target | 11:08 |
| rburton | i'd be surprised if dnf5 hardcodes /var without a prefix, unless they removed the ability to build a rootfs without chroot'ing first | 11:08 |
| aduskett | yes indeed. rootfs/var/cache/dnf | 11:08 |
| aduskett | rburton, they do actually hardcode /var if uid == 0 | 11:09 |
| aduskett | which is extremely annoying | 11:09 |
| rburton | yes | 11:09 |
| aduskett | they split up system cache and cache | 11:09 |
| aduskett | repo cache == system cache and is hard coded to /var/cache if uid == 0 | 11:09 |
| aduskett | /var/cache/libdnf5 * | 11:09 |
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| kanavin | I remember spending weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks replacing smart with dnf4, with a list of issues like this that would never end | 11:14 |
| kanavin | it worn me down, but it also turned me into something of a yocto expert (when viewed from safe distance) | 11:14 |
| aduskett | kanavin, lol this will be my first contribution to yocto, but I have over 1300 commits to Buildroot | 11:15 |
| aduskett | So embedded systems engineering issues aren't going to wear me down too much :D | 11:15 |
| RP | kanavin: at least most other things don't seem so bad now! | 11:15 |
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| rburton | aduskett: strong first patch! | 11:19 |
| aduskett | rburton, rpm6 may be next ;) | 11:20 |
| kanavin | aduskett, can you tell about the context? what's the incentive to move to dnf5/rpm6 (other than the general need to stay close to upstream for security/maintenance reasons) | 11:25 |
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| aduskett | kanavin, dnf5 is C++ and dnf4 is python | 11:26 |
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| aduskett | parallel download capabilities are also quite nice | 11:26 |
| aduskett | and of course staying close to upstream for security/maintenance reasons ;) | 11:27 |
| kanavin | but why c++ is better than python? | 11:27 |
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| kanavin | I never quite understood that part of the rationale for dnf5 | 11:27 |
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| aduskett | dnf5 has parallel downloads for packages whic is really nice | 11:28 |
| kanavin | does it still installs them serially? | 11:28 |
| aduskett | yes | 11:28 |
| kanavin | I sometimes wonder if parallel installation could greatly speed up do_rootfs | 11:28 |
| aduskett | dnf5 also combines dnf and libdnf into a single repository which is quite nice | 11:28 |
| aduskett | Also, dnf5 has a rollback command | 11:29 |
| aduskett | which is quite nice | 11:29 |
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| aduskett | kanavin, and I'm updating the package just for fun as well :P | 11:30 |
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| kanavin | haha yes. I must be old and jaded if I don't even think of that as a reason :) | 11:31 |
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| aduskett | kanavin, I too am old and jaded, don't you worry | 11:32 |
| aduskett | you are in good company | 11:32 |
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| walter | Why does installing gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad trigger a recompilation of llvm-native? Should it do that? I didn't make any other change from yesterday, except adding gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad. | 11:36 |
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| kanavin | presumably because something is written in rust, likely librsvhg | 11:55 |
| kanavin | librsvg | 11:55 |
| rburton | walter: a rebuild shouldn't have happened, but its easy to cause if you touch things like python | 11:56 |
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| rburton | i actually wanted to send a patch to remove rsvg by default from gst | 11:56 |
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| kanavin | so, grub | 11:56 |
| kanavin | the offending file is generated thusly | 11:57 |
| kanavin | moddep.lst: syminfo.lst genmoddep.awk video.lst | 11:57 |
| kanavin | cat $< | sort | $(AWK) -f $(srcdir)/genmoddep.awk > $@ || (rm -f $@; exit 1) | 11:57 |
| kanavin | so either sort is somehow unstable between hosts, or awk is doing non-deterministic stuff | 11:57 |
| kanavin | any awk experts to look at this? | 11:57 |
| kanavin | https://cgit.git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grub.git/tree/grub-core/genmoddep.awk?h=grub-2.12&id=5ca9db22e8ed0dbebb2aec53722972de0680a463 | 11:58 |
| RP | kanavin: I guess we need the output on the different hosts to narrow it down and confirm it is awk | 11:58 |
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| RP | kanavin: you should be able to ssh onto the workers and confirm it is that | 11:58 |
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| walter | I see. Thanks! | 11:58 |
| RP | kanavin: locales can sometimes influence sort | 11:59 |
| kanavin | RP: I can ssh into the worker that failed the repro test, but do we have the worker which produced the original? | 11:59 |
| RP | kanavin: presumably any other worker if this is an ubuntu 25.10 issue | 12:00 |
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| RP | kanavin: even your local system is probably good enough | 12:01 |
| kanavin | RP: right, yes. I didn't yet see which host this run on, just the diff | 12:01 |
| RP | kanavin: it appears to be failing on 25.10 | 12:02 |
| neverpanic | Isn't 25.10 the one that replaced coreutils with rust implementations? | 12:03 |
| neverpanic | Maybe try swapping those out for the original ones and see if it still occurs? | 12:03 |
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| RP | neverpanic: that is our suspicion | 12:03 |
| neverpanic | Unstable sort implemented in the sort binary maybe? Could be any number of issues. | 12:04 |
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| paulbarker | neverpanic: sort should by nature sort things! You'd hope that the order is reproducible | 12:05 |
| RP | For the Fedora43 issue, both qemux86 images have tracebacks in the kernel logs. I suspect KVM | 12:07 |
| RP | Both had the same EIP which is interesting | 12:07 |
| paulbarker | kanavin: Any NULs or non-utf-8 bytes in syminfo.lst? https://github.com/uutils/coreutils/issues/9264 | 12:08 |
| RP | mathieudb: for the f43 issue, I've put the logs here: https://autobuilder.yocto.io/pub/failed-builds-data/qemux86-f43/ for https://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/valkyrie/#/builders/30/builds/2731 | 12:10 |
| RP | mathieudb: we'll need a bug on that one | 12:11 |
| RP | "x86 KVM broken on fedora43" | 12:11 |
| RP | my best guess | 12:11 |
| kanavin | RP, paulbarker I confirm it is sort | 12:14 |
| kanavin | let me see what exactly it's doing differently | 12:14 |
| neverpanic | I see references to X in those logs. Didn't F43 remove support for X? | 12:14 |
| neverpanic | nevermind, the guest kernel panic is definitely not X-related | 12:15 |
| kanavin | SO | 12:16 |
| kanavin | regular sort puts ata first, at_keyboard second | 12:16 |
| kanavin | ubuntu 25.10 sort does the opposit | 12:16 |
| RP | kanavin: that does not surprise me. You could try forcing the same locale, see if you can get it to change | 12:18 |
| kanavin | LANG=en_US.UTF-8 on both hosts | 12:18 |
| kanavin | it is the same | 12:18 |
| RP | kanavin: ok. Then it is a behaviour bug | 12:18 |
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| RP | new tools mean you have to relearn all these corner cases you have to handle | 12:18 |
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| kanavin | absolutely, and I wonder how come no one noticed | 12:19 |
| kanavin | maybe because ubuntu 25.10 is very new | 12:19 |
| RP | kanavin: I guess at least we now have a nice easy way to show upstream | 12:19 |
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| kanavin | RP paulbarker I suspect they already know https://github.com/uutils/coreutils/pull/9176 | 12:23 |
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| kanavin | what is baffling though, sort should be using the symlink from hosttools, which points to gnusort | 12:35 |
| kanavin | I need to probe a bit more | 12:35 |
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| RP | kanavin: I'm wondering if something resets PATH somewhere? That is the next question | 12:40 |
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| kanavin | RP: the issue is actually gawk. The eventual end result differs even when gnu sort is used on both machines, and the outputs match the repro fail diffs | 12:43 |
| kanavin | (and the sorting is identical as confirmed by piping into sha256sum) | 12:44 |
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| kanavin | libc6 issue is similar, there's no sort there, just awk call | 12:52 |
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| neverpanic | Wait, Ubuntu shipped a sort binary by default while knowing it didn't have locale support? | 12:55 |
| neverpanic | That's a bold strategy if I've ever seen one. | 12:55 |
| neverpanic | It might not be the root cause in this case, but wow. | 12:56 |
| kanavin | RP paulbarker yep, confirmed. it is gawk. different output between versions 5.2.1 and 5.3.2 | 12:56 |
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| paulbarker | neverpanic: I had to advise a client earlier this year that uutils looks great but isn't ready for production use yet. I'm still amazed Ubuntu shipped it in 25.10 | 12:59 |
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| rburton | kanavin: why can't people just leave these tools alone! | 13:34 |
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| kanavin | rburton, I wonder too, you'd think at some point they should be 'done' and go into hard maintenance | 13:40 |
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| kanavin | like TeX, and it's uncompromising version system | 13:40 |
| kanavin | 3.1415926.... | 13:40 |
| RP | kanavin: 'fun' :/ Good to have it narrowed down though, thanks | 13:44 |
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| kanavin | RP: the quick fix would be to insert a sort after the awk invocations | 13:44 |
| kanavin | a slower fix would be to understand exactly where in the awk scripts the difference arises. I thought awk does not have dictionary types, just arrays and lists, but I don't know it at all really. | 13:45 |
| kanavin | oh, right, except we can't sort a C header: https://valkyrie.yocto.io/pub/repro-fail/oe-reproducible-20251119-w2h74ptw/packages/diff-html/ | 13:48 |
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| RP | kanavin: a DEPENDS += "gawk-native" might also "fix" it | 13:48 |
| kanavin | yup | 13:48 |
| kanavin | I'm going to lunch or I'll collapse in front of my all-standing desk :) | 13:49 |
| RP | kanavin: no problem, thanks for the info so far, it helps | 13:49 |
| RP | helps a lot | 13:49 |
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| mathieudb | RP: I opened a ticket for the Fedora43 issue: https://bugzilla.yoctoproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16074 | 13:59 |
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| kanavin | RP: we need one more tweak to the setup dir naming. It's creating 'distro_poky-master', not just 'poky-master'. I think we can just strip out the first component of the fragment name (e.g. distro/ machine/ yocto/ etc.), but I can't immediately sent a patch. In a bit. | 14:17 |
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| RP | kanavin: sounds good thanks | 14:25 |
| RP | mathieudb: thanks! | 14:26 |
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| kergoth | landgraf: Yeah.. I am a bit concerned about the pressure vs contribution, but honestly the severance was dwindling, and I really do love the mission. Will see. | 15:31 |
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