Tuesday, 2019-06-11

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LetoThe2ndmccc: heya. i should be around all day. and if you are interested, i'll be running the twitch live sessions tonight :)06:02
mcccIf it's https://www.twitch.tv/yocto_project it looks like I missed you - I'll try and catch you next time :)06:15
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LetoThe2ndhehe no, this night. in about 8.5 hrs06:24
LetoThe2ndmccc: so, what do you mean exactly by the clouod server topic. like, full linux systems to run inside a vm? or rather containers?06:26
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mcccFull Linux systems to run inside a VM.  I have a service backend right now that uses a couple of VM types and I'm manually administering them.  I was evaluating options to automate them and considered Yocto combined with an orchestrator like Terraform or Pulumi.  I don't have much container experience, but a full disk image feels like a natural artifact to use to divide the configuration side07:04
mcccfrom the orchestration side.  I saw other recent projects taking this approach, LinuxKit and Packer.  I'm using Yocto in the same project to deliver an embedded system so I wanted to consider using it here too.07:04
LetoThe2ndmccc: hmmmm ok.07:06
LetoThe2ndmccc: well the main thing about yocto or rather openembedded to be precise, is to create a custom linux distribution. so if you know beforehand what you will want in that vm image, there nothing that keeps you from creating it.07:07
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LetoThe2ndmccc: it just boils down to this. pro side: total control over the generated image. (where some forms of control take littel effort, some take much). contra side: you most likely end up with a linux distribution in your container that is to at least some degree incompatible with what the rest of the word takes for granted.07:10
LetoThe2ndmccc: so you'd really have to make up your mind on what the image shall bring, what the orchestration should do, etc.07:11
LetoThe2ndmccc: because if in the end you just need a drop-in for a slim ubuntu or alpine base install, then you're almost certainly better off just using those.07:12
LetoThe2ndmccc: best example: an OE-based image does by default not bring a package manager. and no package repositories too, of course.07:13
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mcccOkay.  Immutable infrastructure seems to be the hot topic, but it seems like most approaches include starting with a popular distribution, running a configuration manager tool on it, capturing the image, and using it.  While a configuration manager would use the distribution's package repositories during configuration time to bring down software, with the immutable infrastructure pattern you07:15
mcccwouldn't expect to use those package managers on that image again.  Instead, you would start from scratch when it comes time to upgrade.07:15
mcccIn that sense the Yocto Layer Index and community recipes end up taking the place of a distribution's package manager - it's the place where I'd bring software down when building an image.07:15
mcccIf the software I would end up needing is available in the layer index, I feel like that should be as good as if it were available in a distribution's package manager.07:17
LetoThe2ndmccc: exactly, that the thing one needs to get his head around. the recipes in the layer index are basically the equivalent of a classic package repository07:18
LetoThe2ndmccc: so, if your approach is to generate a full custom image based on that, which then only needs a handful of configuration artifacts deployed through orchestration, then you're good to go07:18
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LetoThe2ndmccc: for a usecase like this, you'd probably jsut use the generic x86-64 machine, maybe core-image-minimal as the starting point, and then evolve.07:20
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mcccThat seems to be the point of the immutable infrastructure pattern, but as we've talked about there isn't much online about using Yocto for this.  Most guides talk about using a configuration manager like Chef or Jenkins during image build time, and then there are the LinuxKit and Packer projects.07:22
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LetoThe2ndmccc: the key difference between vm and container is that the former needs the full shbang in terms of init process and all, so you can't strip it down as aggressively as a container image. there, you can literally just define the binary thats going to be run, and let OE figure out its dependencies to go into the image07:22
mckoangood morning07:22
mcccGood morning mckoan :)07:24
alessioigorgood morning07:24
LetoThe2ndmccc: if you're using yocto/OE, there is little to additionally document by default in comparison to a standard embedded image. those are "immutable" too by mindset.07:25
mcccLetoThe2nd - that makes sense.  Because I don't have much Docker / container experience, I'm trying to make sure I'm not missing anything about containers in the mix here.07:25
mcccYour point about an app designer being able to just define the binary and ignore the operating system makes sense, of course you take a dependency on the container system, but the OS can be swapped out underneith.07:26
mcccIn this scenario though as an app designer I take a dependency on Yocto when I define my recipes,07:26
mcccand then as an image creator I do the work of defining the rest of the OS.07:27
LetoThe2ndmccc: building custom containers is where things are really different. because your run of the mill ubuntu container is, well, an ubuntu where a lot of stuff is around but never run - there is no pid 1, basically. this is where yocto/OE shines, you can totally build something that has no init, no bash, no anything07:27
mcccI'm wondering if the extra work of 1) the Yocto learning curve and 2) being responsible for defining the rest of the OS, is what makes writing an app for a container that runs on a regular distribution the more common path.07:29
mcccI really do like that about Yocto though, the massive configurability and the ability to start from nothing and pull in just what's needed.07:30
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mcccI'm also trying to make sure I'm not swimming too far upstream though, since I don't see much online about using Yocto for cloud VM images.07:31
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mcccIt's late here so I'm going to head home, but I really appreciate your discussion about this, thank you.07:36
LetoThe2ndmccc: sorry, phone.07:38
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LetoThe2ndmccc: it depends. my gut feeling is, that it only pays of if you either have super special requirements, or if you are running such a massive amount of vms/containers that the reduced resource consumption pays off.07:38
LetoThe2ndmccc: for the vast majority of cases, i'd probably say that sticking to common practises is more efficient in terms of work output07:39
mcccThat makes sense.  The other consideration is I'm already using Yocto in the project for embedded so it would at least share the tool.07:40
LetoThe2ndmccc: it would only share the knowledge.07:41
mccc:) thanks again so much for the discussion.  Have a good night!07:45
LetoThe2ndmccc: you too.07:45
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qschulzDoes anyone know on which branch of openembedded-core I should base my patches ebfore sending them upstream? I based it on master-next but it was rejected by the build/test bot :/07:58
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erboqschulz: use master08:09
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qschulzerbo: thx08:12
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LetoThe2ndndec: sure, i can mention that too. if i should forget, just remind me and point it out in the chat08:37
ndecLetoThe2nd: sure!08:38
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tprrtHello everyone, I have a question about testsdk, is it possible to have the results in JUnit xml format?08:54
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RPtprrt: we standardised on json as the output format but it should be trivial to convert to that09:05
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luckywhoI'm trying to inegrate nodejs in image file. IMAGE_INSTALL += "nodejs". BUt getting following error ERROR: nodejs-6.10.0-r0 do_package_qa: QA Issue: /usr/lib/node_modules/npm/scripts/dep-update contained in package nodejs requires /bin/bash, but no providers found in RDEPENDS_nodejs? [file-rdeps]09:12
luckywhoERROR: nodejs-6.10.0-r0 do_package_qa: QA Issue: /usr/lib/node_modules/npm/node_modules/node-gyp/gyp/samples/samples contained in package nodejs requires /usr/bin/python, but no providers found in RDEPENDS_nodejs? [file-rdeps].09:12
tprrtluckywho: From the nodejs recipe, you should add bash into the RDEPENDS_${PN} to fix the first error. And for the second error, you should add the inheritance to the python bbclass.09:14
luckywho1. RDEPENDS_${PN} += "bash"09:15
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tprrtRP: thanks, and where is this json file located? because I only found the file log.do_testsdk.09:17
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yannkergoth: (reacting to your answer 4 days ago) so the problem would be a bad interaction between "${SYSROOT_DESTDIR}${base_prefix}/sysroot-providers/" in staging.bbclass and base_prefix = "${STAGING_DIR_NATIVE}" in native.class, which basically means that those 2 classes are mutually incompatible, right ?09:40
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luckywhotprrt: And for the second error, you should add the inheritance to the python bbclass. why? we can add as RDEPENDS_$(PN) += "python"(image filesystem failed at do_makesystem). If i add inherit python. It will look for python.bbclass. I have following python classes. "python3-dir.bbclass python3native.bbclass python-dir.bbclass pythonnative.bbclass".10:22
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kuzulisHi guys, how to configure the image correctly to use the 4G modems? f.e. I have the HUAWEI E3372 modem. By default it initializes in 'mass storage' mode and has vid/pid 12d1:if01.. So, I need the usb-modeswitch-{data} recipes. So, I have added this recipes to my image as: IMAGE_INSTALL_append = "usb-modeswitch \ usb-modeswitch-data"... But, the usb mode does not switched in a result... and my modem still detected as a 'mass storage'...10:41
kuzulisI looked in /usr/share/usb_modeswitch that there are present a configuration for my modem.. in a file 12d1:1f01..10:42
kuzulisAhh.. seems, I need to it manually, like: usb_modeswitch -v 12d1 -p 1f01 -c /usr/share/usb_modeswitch/12d1\:1f0110:45
tprrtluckywho: Sorry, you should add ${PYTHON_PN} to RDEPENDS_${PN}.11:07
tprrtkuzulis: for this to be automatic, you may need to make a modification in a struct of the kernel: static const struct usb_device_id option_ids[] drivers/usb/serial/option.c.11:12
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kuzulistprrt: Why if I try to create an udev rule instead? Is it will help?11:18
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luckywhotprrt: I have added RDEPENDS_${PN} += "bash ${PYTHON_PN}". I'm getting follwoing error. error: ext4_allocate_best_fit_partial: failed to allocate 2 blocks, out of space? | fs_config_file: /home/poky/build/tmp-glibc/work/linux-gnueabi/machine-image/1.0-r0/rootfs-fsconfig.conf11:25
tprrtkuzulis: it is also a right solution, implement an udev rules calling usb_modeswitch11:25
kuzulistprrt: ok, many thanks11:30
RPtprrt: TMPDIR/log/oeqa/testresults.json11:31
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kanavinRP: was pulling hairs trying to reproduce the gtk failure, then realized I was building gtk+ (e.g. 2.x), not gtk+3 :)11:34
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RPkanavin: sorry, I eventually realised it was a resource issue, I think12:02
RPkanavin: we're getting too many hard to track down odd issues atm :(12:02
tprrtRP: Thanks for your help.12:08
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yannremoving a couple of extra defs finally leads me to a satisfactory recipe-sysroot-native being deployed to user recipes, but the fact sysroot-destdir/ contains a duplication of the whole directory tree still makes me nervous13:31
RPyann: if you mean for native recipes, that is necessary13:38
RPit looks odd, it isn't when you realise that sysroot-destdir is a sysroot, the files placed there are installed at their final end user paths, prefixed by the DESTDIR13:39
yannhm, but then they aren't ever going to be used at that place, since they're relocated for each recipe using them13:41
yannanyway, a short note in staging.class or native.class documentation would help avoid the confusion, I'd say :)13:42
RPyann: they might not be used at that exact path but they will be used at a location like that and other things will be at paths relative to the path. It does help a lot to install like that13:43
RPyann: patches welcome13:43
kanavinRP: I mean the issue that is specific to the gtk+3 version upgrade13:44
RPkanavin: ah, and you were building gtk+ locally, right...13:44
RPkanavin: sorry, my brain is fried atm :/13:44
kanavinyes, no problem. once I sort that out, there are a few spare cycles I could use to help13:45
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yannRP: as usual, I'm a bit wary when it comes to documenting a behaviour I just discovered :)13:46
kanavinbtw, the lwn discussion under your article is a bit discouraging: people did not fail to notice that a) the failure was not picked up until a kernel developer hit the problem locally; b) the failure made it through the kernel review and testing process into stable kernele releases13:46
RPkanavin: there are certainly problems and things that could have happened better13:47
JPEWIs that public yet?13:47
RPkanavin: equally we could have been totally oblivious to it instead so I'd say we got better13:47
RPJPEW: yes13:48
JPEWAh, found it13:48
RPJPEW: https://lwn.net/Articles/788626/13:48
JPEWRP: thanks13:48
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RPkanavin: I think it got the idea out there that distro testing like we're doing can help the kernel. Next time we send a bug, just maybe they may pay more attention13:55
JPEWRP: It's a good article13:56
JPEWHrmm, perl is encoding the absolute path to miniperl in its source... this is not reproducible :(13:57
RPJPEW: thanks :)13:58
RPJPEW: no, that is bad :(13:58
kergothyann: if native used a normal prefix like / or /usr, it’d be troublesome to do the relocation, as part of that is a sed replacement, and you can’t very well go replacing every instance of “/“. That said, we could probably just as well use a specific placeholder, I think. Wouldn’t buy us much though14:03
* kergoth yawns14:03
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RPyann: we never used to relocate things and this code does date from then. it works well, we have other things which cause problems...14:17
RPkergoth: how much would we change if we started doing this from scratch today? :)14:18
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LetoThe2ndndec: no timing glitch today!14:59
frayFYI I'm in the twitch chat, but on a meeting.. so I might be delayed if needed...15:00
LetoThe2ndfray: noted, thanks!15:00
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kergothRP: heh, indeed. could take a little inspiration from nix's individual checksum-based prefixes, perhaps15:04
* kergoth yawns15:04
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rburtonRP: not sure the pylint patchtest is doing the right thing15:32
moto-timorburton: it's running python3 right?15:34
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rburtonno idea what the test does, but its erroring in a stupid way15:35
moto-timoI found the code, trying not to look too hard ;)15:36
moto-timoI think linting has grown up a bit since 2016...15:37
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RPrburton: it probably isn't.  I thought you meant the one on the autobuilder for a second15:42
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LetoThe2ndunbelievable how a fly around you is when you're already trying to explain something and have a beer!15:57
LetoThe2nd*how annoying15:57
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JPEWI've always wanted to make a fly tracking laser...15:59
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LetoThe2ndmckoan|away: thanks for the input, BTW16:00
RPLetoThe2nd: sorry I was in the other meeting :(16:00
LetoThe2ndRP: no problem. was a really slow session anyways16:00
RPJPEW: the midges we get in the forests around here would just mob such a device :/16:01
LetoThe2ndat least here its vacation season16:01
RPLetoThe2nd: what is "vacation"?16:01
RPI shouldn't joke, I am getting better at taking breaks16:02
LetoThe2ndRP: when you have to pay for your drinks yourself, but on the other hand do not have to code while emptying them16:02
LetoThe2ndas opposed to not paying, but having to code while....16:02
LetoThe2ndRP: glad to hear, seriously16:02
LetoThe2ndhope i didn't talk too much nonsense, but neither you nor fray nor kergoth screamed! :)16:03
RPLetoThe2nd: working from home doesn't quite work like that :)16:03
RPLetoThe2nd: I wasn't there to scream :(16:03
RPLetoThe2nd: sounds like you had good company though16:03
LetoThe2ndlittle company, i think. but well see. request #1: "make past stream sessions available"16:04
LetoThe2ndanyways, see you laters. family time now.16:04
RPLetoThe2nd: thanks for doing it!16:04
ndecLetoThe2nd: we are not saying it enough ... but thank you for your work on the live sessions! today's session about packaging was good. it's a difficult thing to understand for new people... it was a good intro.16:06
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armpitRP, the opk patches for thud included a testcase. Should I bug it so we might create a OEQA test?17:26
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yannhm, looks like I sent my doc patch to the wrong list, should have been yocto@yoctoproject.org, right ?  Should I just resubmit to proper list ?17:42
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RParmpit: could create a newcommer bug, yes17:46
RParmpit: good thinking17:46
armpitit happens once in a while ; )17:46
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LetoThe2ndndec: no need to, its just the form of deal i can offer. we use yocto/oe in our daily work, but i don't have company money to hand out. so this is what i can do. in a nutshell: you help me in getting my work done, i help you in getting yours done.18:30
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stephanoI'm working on a poky-tiny build for a firmware flash part (4MB). Following the basic steps here: https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Poky-Tiny18:38
stephanobsp_definition is dropping me into the bb_fatal for "Could not locate BSP definition"18:39
stephanoDid I miss a step setting up the defconfig?18:39
LetoThe2ndstephano: whoa. sorry, but that article seems to be quite outdated.18:43
LetoThe2ndstephano: for example eglibc vs. uclibc hasn't been a thing for years.18:44
stephanoLetoThe2nd: Yeah, I realize that poky-tiny needs love. It misses Darren. :)18:45
stephanoLetoThe2nd: I'm using musl. Just a vanilla poky master clone.18:45
LetoThe2ndstephano: IIRC even poky master, just switching distro to poky-tiny broke just recently, for a missing kernel (some typo thing)18:47
LetoThe2ndstephano: i'd look at your bsp if it refers to some form of DISTRO specifically.18:47
stephanoLetoThe2nd: Okay, will do.18:48
LetoThe2ndstephano: respectively, start with qemu, and only add your bsp if that builds and boots18:49
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stephanoLetoThe2nd: Will do. The BSP might be meta-intel eventually, but honestly, running out of MinnowBoard flash? Who knows what will work. :)18:53
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stephanoLetoThe2nd: We just recently freed up 4mb of flash on the Minnow build, so I figured I'd try to cram Yocto in there. :)18:53
stephanoYou can do it Poky-Tiny!!!18:53
LetoThe2ndstephano: oh, almost nothing is impossible. but 4mb including a kernel on x86 is a very special kind of fun. on ARM, no big deal.18:54
stephanoLetoThe2nd: indeed. I will put my thinking cap on.18:59
LetoThe2ndstephano: have fun, then!19:00
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stephanoLetoThe2nd: 2.7 tag worked great. :)19:12
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rburtonhey stephano welcome back :)19:39
rburtonLetoThe2nd: tiny linux kernel?  find tom zanussi :)19:40
rburtonerm stephano  ^^^19:40
stephanorburton: Tom! Is he still at Intel, or does he work at VMware now... :p19:42
stephanoI never left, I was just sucked into a vortex of conferences.19:42
rburtonstephano: i think he is still at intel...19:45
rburtonbut he can tell you how small a kernel can get with minimal effort, even if the knowledge is a few years stale19:45
stephanorburton, Perfect, thanks! I'll send him an AR. :)19:46
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stephanoAwww, there's even a video... https://youtu.be/rSaU091gcW819:50
rburtonthere we go :)19:50
stephanoQueue Andrew Lloyd Webber's Memories...19:50
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blscoeyocto is the main oe distro ?19:56
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blscoewhat kernel does it uses ?20:01
JPEWblscoe: Linux kernel... exact version depends on a lot of factors20:02
blscoeby linux kernel20:02
blscoeyou dont mean android kernel right ?20:03
JPEWErr, I'm particularly sure if I can differentiate between them :) The kernel you use is going to largely depend on what hardware you are targeting20:04
JPEW(at least in my expirence)20:05
blscoeanother question20:05
blscoewhats the default root password ? I have an old password that is oelinux120:06
blscoebut doesnt work anymore20:07
JPEWI don't actually know... there might not be one (sometimes root is configured to not allow *any* password login)20:09
blscoei tryed empty password but no...20:10
rburtonblscoe: default password is not set, so you can't actually login.  if debug-tweaks was set, then it is empty20:19
blscoeI needoh, and how exactly are you supposed to use ther os ?20:20
blscoeoh, and how exactly are you supposed to use the os ?20:20
kergothset a r oot password, add a user, or enable debug-tweaks.20:21
kergothhardcoding a password out of the box is a security flaw20:21
blscoesame fore oe core ?20:21
blscoesame for oe core ?20:22
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kergothi don't understand the question.20:22
kergothyocto's buildsystem *is* oe-core, along with a few other bits20:22
blscoeI need the root password for the quectel EC21 / EC2520:23
blscoeit used to be oelinux1 , but not anymore20:24
rburtonask quectel?20:24
rburtonoe is a tool to build distros20:24
rburtonjust because the quectel ec21 has a default password of oelinux1 doesn't mean anyone else does20:25
blscoeok. but someone here may know20:27
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psrcodewhen using devtool to upgrade a recipe, what is the best way to handle patches that cannot be applied on the upgraded source?21:50
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bluelightning_psrcode: it should be a typical git rebase conflict resolution operation22:06
psrcodek, I'm mostly interested in discarding part of the patches22:07
psrcodeanyway found another way for now that was a bit less convuluted, will revisit devtool next time22:07
RPpsrcode: was meaning to ask you about the lttng-modules patch sitting in -next22:08
psrcodewhat about them?22:09
psrcodethe one for 5.1?22:09
psrcodeRP: ^22:11
RPpsrcode: yes, those ones. I'd prefer to have a release to switch to rather than patches I guess :)22:13
RPpsrcode: so I guess I'm asking if a release is imminent or whether adding that patch makes sense22:13
psrcodeRP: hmmmm, yeah when is the next official release on your side?22:14
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RPpsrcode: we're on our interim milestone releases. M1 just built, M2 is mid july. Main release October22:16
RPpsrcode: I just don't like adding and then removing patches. We may want to consider a git version of lttng-modules people could use instead for new kernels?22:16
psrcodewe could probably cut a 2.10.10 patch level release that would include all the fixes (let me double check)22:16
RPIf you're using bleeding edge kernels, you probably don't mind a git version of lttng-modules to go with it22:17
psrcodefollowing the stable branch of the 2.X release would make sense22:17
psrcodemaster also22:17
psrcodeactually master would be good22:18
psrcodeis there a way to configure wich recipe to take based on the kernel?22:18
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psrcodeyeah after double checking all proposed patches are in the stable 2.10 branch, I'll check with the maintainer if we can cut a release for you22:21
psrcodebut do you plane on moving to 5.2 or higher? because otherwise it is an endless chase ...22:22
RPpsrcode: This is what worries me. I think adding a git recipe for this reason may be the better answer22:24
RPpsrcode: it wouldn't be magic but it would just be a single extra PREFERRED_VERSION setting which people can manage22:25
RPpsrcode: I can ask the patch submitter to look at that as an alternative22:26
psrcodewould be nice to be able to set a preferred version based on the kernel version chosen, anyway Mathieu is currently looking into cutting the release, should take care of the current patchset22:26
psrcodeanyway I got to go, but way git recipe get my +122:27
psrcodeway -> yeah22:27
psrcodeespecially for lttng-modules22:28
yoctiNew news from stackoverflow: include tar.bz image in wic image <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/56552370/include-tar-bz-image-in-wic-image>22:30
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featherlessbipedI'm getting an rpm build error22:39
featherlessbipedis there a way to debug the generated buildspec?22:40
featherlessbipedafter I run bitbake22:40
RPpsrcode: thanks22:45
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TartarusFWIW, I'm updating and testing a build of current vim now.22:57
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RPTartarus: cool :)23:38
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