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| jonesv[m] | Aha! Somebody with the same error in postmarketOS suggested compiling with an older version of GCC. Could it be that kernel 3.18 needs an older version of GCC? I will try to make yocto do that, if feasible | 02:34 |
|---|---|---|
| vdl | jonesv[m]: too recent gcc version is a common build error indeed | 02:40 |
| jonesv[m] | Aha, I did not know that | 02:40 |
| jonesv[m] | I see on StackOverflow somebody suggesting "PREFERRED_VERSION_gcc-cross-${TARGET_ARCH} ?= "5.2%"" to use GCC 5.2 | 02:42 |
| jonesv[m] | I need to figure out which version to use for kernel 3.18.31 | 02:42 |
| jonesv[m] | Also I am not sure where GCC will come from... Will yocto build it for me then? | 02:42 |
| vdl | jonesv[m]: the best would be to use an host supported by yocto | 03:01 |
| vdl | jonesv[m]: I suggest you kas, it's a build tool for bitbake-based project which provide a container as well | 03:01 |
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| abelloni | jonesv[m]: I confirm your issue is because the compiler is too recent to compile 3.18 | 11:34 |
| jonesv[m] | <vdl "jonesv: the best would be to use"> Isn't Ubuntu supported? I have been using arch for years, but I installed Ubuntu for work (to have the same setup as my colleagues). Not sure how I feel about having yet another distro 😁. I mean, I'm new to yocto, not to Linux. I would hope I can manage my host if I understand what yocto requires 😊 | 11:41 |
| abelloni | jonesv[m]: you may have some luck by first merging 3.18.140 | 11:41 |
| abelloni | the issue is not the compiler from your host but the cross compiler that is built by YP | 11:42 |
| jonesv[m] | Right but I would not expect kas to solve that | 11:42 |
| abelloni | no, kas wuill not solve that | 11:43 |
| jonesv[m] | Just because I'm curious, I'll try the PREFERRED_VERSION, I wonder if yocto can build any version of gcc-cross I mention there 😁. If that doesn't work I'll try merging 3.18.140 | 11:44 |
| abelloni | I think that you will actually need to do both | 11:46 |
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| jonesv[m] | ```NOTE: versions of gcc-cross-arm available: 10.2.0 | 12:06 |
| jonesv[m] | NOTE: preferred version 4.8% of gcc-cross-arm not available (for item virtual/arm-poky-linux-gnueabi-g++)``` | 12:06 |
| jonesv[m] | So I'm guessing yocto does not build the toolchain automatically, does it? | 12:06 |
| * jonesv[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/EywdIfABKzXVVmNbkcZLXgIg/message.txt > | 12:06 | |
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| jonesv[m] | Oh, yocto has `meta/recipes-devtools/gcc/gcc-cross_10.2.bb` only. It means I'll probably stuggle to get it to build an older gcc | 12:13 |
| sveinse | I'm trying to make a minimal image without any services running, but packagegroup-base pulls in DISTRO_FEATURE packages. What is the distinction between IMAGE_FEATURES and DISTRO_FEATURES? In this case I still want the availability of the DISTRO_FEATURES, not just in this specific image. | 12:21 |
| sveinse | My general understanding is that a distro is the collective set of functionality, while image is the specific instance of it. Or subset if you like. | 12:22 |
| sveinse | So perhaps the way to do this is to actually create a new minimal distro for this specific image? | 12:23 |
| RobertBerger | @ jonesv[m]: typically there is one (sometimes also more) version/s of the toolchain with a specific yocto version | 12:24 |
| RobertBerger | @ jonesv[m]: any specific reason you want to build with some ancient cross gcc? | 12:25 |
| RobertBerger | @sveinse: we have 3 orthogonal concepts: IMAGE, DISTRO and MACHINE | 12:25 |
| RobertBerger | @sveinse: https://docs.yoctoproject.org/singleindex.html#term-IMAGE_FEATURES | 12:27 |
| RobertBerger | @sveinse: https://docs.yoctoproject.org/singleindex.html#ref-features-image | 12:27 |
| sveinse | RobertBerger: Exactly, but in this case they're not completely orthogonal. Well, technically its not yocto that mix them, but packagegroup-base.bb in poky does. | 12:28 |
| RobertBerger | @sveinse: orthogonal meaning you can change one without affecting the others. | 12:28 |
| RobertBerger | https://docs.yoctoproject.org/singleindex.html#term-DISTRO_FEATURES | 12:29 |
| sveinse | RobertBerger: yes. And packagegroup-base includes packages dependent on DISTRO_FEATURES, hence you change one the other is affected | 12:29 |
| RobertBerger | https://docs.yoctoproject.org/singleindex.html#ref-features-distro | 12:29 |
| RobertBerger | Wait a bit. | 12:29 |
| RobertBerger | let's say you enable ptest (which is enabled by default). This means ptest packages are installed in your distro | 12:30 |
| sveinse | Well, lets use zeroconf, that's in my list | 12:31 |
| RobertBerger | On which list? DISTRO_FEATURES? | 12:32 |
| RobertBerger | I guess you have meta-openembedded networking layer then | 12:33 |
| sveinse | So, I have a distro that shall support zeroconf, so DISTRO_FEATURES has zeroconf in it. But I now want to make a minimal image, but without running avavhi-daemon. My image is using packagegroup-base as the fundamental package to include and thus avahi comes along since its pulled in by DISTRO_FEATURES | 12:33 |
| jonesv[m] | <RobertBerger "@ jonesv: any specific reason yo"> Because with 10.2 I get this "Assembler messages: .err encountered", and abelloni was suggesting that it could be because I need an older compiler for my downstream kernel v3.18.31 (also abelloni mentioned that I would possibly need to update to v3.18.140) | 12:33 |
| abelloni | "Assembler messages: .err encountered" is not your only issue | 12:34 |
| abelloni | log2.h doesn't compile either | 12:34 |
| RobertBerger | @ jonesv[m]: I guess you should either patch your ancient kernel or use a very old Yocto/OE version | 12:34 |
| jonesv[m] | oh, I hadn't seen that | 12:34 |
| abelloni | log2.h:22:1: warning: ignoring attribute 'noreturn' because it conflicts with attribute 'const' | 12:35 |
| abelloni | later on, this ends up being a forbideen warning | 12:35 |
| abelloni | forbidden | 12:35 |
| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: You can search for recipes here: https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/recipes/ | 12:35 |
| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: I would say zeroconf is enabled by default in DISTRO_FEATURES and you need to include the other layer to have the recipe for it | 12:38 |
| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: pulseaudio.inc: ${@bb.utils.contains('DISTRO_FEATURES', 'zeroconf', 'avahi', '', d)} | 12:39 |
| sveinse | So when package-group pulls in packages based on DISTRO_FEATURES, that independence of DISTRO and IMAGE is lost. DISTRO isn't just determine features, it also controls packages, which I would have hoped could be completely and orthogonally controlled by IMAGE. There are two ways around this: a) Build a new custom distro or b) Not use packagegroup-base and replace it with own implementation. None which I | 12:40 |
| sveinse | truly like :( | 12:40 |
| sveinse | s/package-group/packagegroup-base/ | 12:41 |
| RobertBerger | @sveinse: if you include pulseaudio in your image and zeroconf is enabled in DISTRO_FEATURES you get avahi pulled in ;) | 12:42 |
| sveinse | Jep, and that's unfortunate | 12:42 |
| RobertBerger | You can remove DISTRO_FEATURES if you like | 12:43 |
| RobertBerger | it's a list and you remove elements from it | 12:43 |
| sveinse | Then I'm making new distro without a feature, which implies that the feature packages might not be available for installation later | 12:44 |
| sveinse | Can I guarantee that two distros will be compatible? | 12:44 |
| sveinse | OK, I owe an explaination here: | 12:44 |
| jonesv[m] | <RobertBerger "@ jonesv: I guess you should eit"> So I'm using this downstream kernel because I thought it would be my best chance of having something running at all on the device. But maybe I can try with a 5.x kernel and flash that there... | 12:45 |
| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: Which device is that? | 12:45 |
| sveinse | Want to build a minimal image with very little functions. No services, just the very basic. But opkg shall work so the user can install avahi and other DISTRO_FEATURES enabled functions from a packagepool. So the DISTRO_FEATURES are being built, not just included in this particular image. Thus wanting to captialize on the orthogonality between IMAGE and DISTRO | 12:46 |
| jonesv[m] | <RobertBerger "@jonesv[m]: Which device is that"> It's a Parrot Skycontroller3. A wifi remote controller for remote-controlled planes/drones | 12:46 |
| RobertBerger | @sveinse: Did you try to build a core-image-minimal? | 12:47 |
| jonesv[m] | Well it's the RC for the Parrot drones, actually. But as a learning project with Yocto, I wanted to create my own image for that thing and use it for my RC plane 😀 | 12:47 |
| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: which chip is it here? | 12:48 |
| jonesv[m] | <RobertBerger "@jonesv[m]: which chip is it her"> Qualcomm apq8009 | 12:49 |
| RobertBerger | hehe ;) | 12:49 |
| jonesv[m] | And it also says msm8909, I'm not sure what apq8009/msm8909 means, to be honest | 12:49 |
| jonesv[m] | <RobertBerger "hehe ;)"> Is that bad? 😕 | 12:49 |
| RobertBerger | Hmm it's quad-core Arm Cortex-A7 so you might at least be able to boot a shell there ;) | 12:50 |
| jonesv[m] | The thing is that I only have USB access to it (I can't have a serial connection to see how the kernel boots). So I have to setup my image with a dhcp server, such that I can SSH over USB when it's booted. Let's be honest, probably it won't boot at all and I'll never manage to connect | 12:51 |
| jonesv[m] | That's why I wanted their downstream kernel. I thought it would give me more chances to actually get it to boot | 12:51 |
| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: Is there anything useful here? search qcom https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/tree/arch/arm/boot/dts?h=v5.10.10 | 12:52 |
| jonesv[m] | I could do my project on an RPi or pocketbeagle (yocto build fine there), but that Skycontroller3 is a nice piece of hardware, cheap and mass-produced. Would be cool if there was an open-source way to use it :) | 12:52 |
| RobertBerger | for RPI you have a meta-rpi layer | 12:53 |
| jonesv[m] | <RobertBerger "@jonesv[m]: Is there anything us"> There are some qcom dts, but not for apq8009 or msm8909. But in the downstream kernel I have a dts for that device. Can't I reuse it? | 12:54 |
| RobertBerger | pocketbeagle should work. I have a problem to get the serial console to work reliably with it | 12:54 |
| jonesv[m] | <RobertBerger "for RPI you have a meta-rpi laye"> Yes I know, and that works fine 😊. But that won't boot on my Skycontroller 😀 | 12:54 |
| RobertBerger | Sure it's a different chip | 12:54 |
| RobertBerger | I don't think a device tree for you ancient kernel will work on a 5.x kernel. | 12:54 |
| RobertBerger | your | 12:55 |
| jonesv[m] | So I'm learning Yocto with pocketbeagle and rpi. And I was hoping to learn BSP with the Skycontroller | 12:55 |
| RobertBerger | Do you have a more recent kernel which is supposed to work? | 12:55 |
| jonesv[m] | No, what they publish (and therefore I guess what they deploy on their device) is 3.18 | 12:56 |
| RobertBerger | Maybe this works? https://wiki.paparazziuav.org/wiki/Howto.crosscompile_for_parrot_drones | 12:58 |
| RobertBerger | But it's 3.4.11 | 12:58 |
| jonesv[m] | Yes it's apparently not for the Skycontroller3. And that would not be Yocto, right? | 13:00 |
| sveinse | RobertBerger: I'll figure out a way around this. Thanks! | 13:01 |
| jonesv[m] | But that's another question I have: say I want to keep their kernel without building it myself (I guess it's on their `boot` partition), and I just want to deploy my rootfs on their `system` partition. Can I do that without compiling the kernel at all? I mean, to build my rootfs, I suppose Yocto needs to have the kernel sources, right? | 13:02 |
| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: I never tried this on a "classic" Linux system, but this definitely works with containers. You can use a dummy kernel there. | 13:04 |
| jonesv[m] | But what about packages that depend on the linux-headers? linux-headers are related to the kernel sources, aren't they? | 13:05 |
| jonesv[m] | If my package was built with linux-headers version 5.x, and the kernel runs 3.x, I'll have issues, won't I? | 13:05 |
| RobertBerger | jonesv[m]: Well yes, but the linux-headers are not related to the kernel version in Yocto ;) It's separate packages. | 13:07 |
| RobertBerger | jonesv[m]: Think about it like you build an SDK and you don't need to build a new SDK if you want to build a new kernel version. | 13:08 |
| jonesv[m] | right | 13:08 |
| RobertBerger | jonesv[m]: Or, say you have kernel and device tree over tftp and rootfs of nfs and change the kernel or the rootfs independently | 13:09 |
| jonesv[m] | So maybe I could just try to use a dummy kernel, still build for apq8009/cortexa7 and try to deploy my rootfs, hoping that the bootloader/kernel are on the `boot` partition and will successfully mount my rootfs on the `system` partition? | 13:09 |
| RobertBerger | jonesv[m]: you might even be lucky that it works with the old kernel, since glibc, even if it calls a system call, which does not exist in your old kernel might try to call an alternative syscall which works | 13:10 |
| RobertBerger | Can you boot with a rootfs over nfs? | 13:11 |
| RobertBerger | I guess you don't have networking. | 13:11 |
| RobertBerger | I mean only wifi networking and I am not sure how will this will work with NFS | 13:12 |
| jonesv[m] | <RobertBerger "I guess you don't have networkin"> I have adb access (to get a root shell or to push stuff there), and I can reboot it in fastboot mode (where I flash the boot, recovery and system images) | 13:12 |
| jonesv[m] | <RobertBerger "I mean only wifi networking and "> Oh I can connect it to my computer over wifi, yes | 13:12 |
| RobertBerger | Hmm this sounds like Android ;) | 13:13 |
| jonesv[m] | haha yes, they used to have Android on their RCs, and they moved to linux, but apparently they kept the Android tooling | 13:13 |
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| RobertBerger | OMG | 13:13 |
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| jonesv[m] | But once I `adb shell` onto that thing, I'm in a normal linux environment. It just isn't the classic beginner-setup for yocto, I guess :D | 13:15 |
| jonesv[m] | I can already connect to it and hack around. But I was hoping to get a nice and clean yocto BSP for it. But it seems like I should give up on that | 13:16 |
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| jonesv[m] | I looked at yocto commit d9aabf9639510fdb3e2ccc21ba5ae4aa9f6e4a57, which "gcc: Drop 4.8". But that came with tons of patches, I am not even sure if I could write my own recipe building gcc-cross 4.8. And if I did, it does not tell me that it would successfully build my kernel. | 13:18 |
| RobertBerger | @ jonesv[m]: You could use some ancient Yocto version | 13:19 |
| jonesv[m] | And still that would not necessarily allow me to build an image for both rpi and this device, since my rpi would run on a new kernel with a new gcc, and this device on an old kernel with an old gcc | 13:19 |
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| RobertBerger | @ jonesv[m]: I guess I would first try to patch the old kernel to build with a recent gcc and in case this is too tricky use an ancient yocto version | 13:20 |
| jonesv[m] | right | 13:20 |
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| jonesv[m] | I'm not so much into using an ancient yocto because at this point I can just hack around on the device and use yocto on an rpi. | 13:21 |
| jonesv[m] | Patching the old kernel would be nicer, but I would not even know where to start about those "Assembler message: .err encountered" | 13:21 |
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| jonesv[m] | And unfortunately, apq8009 is not supported by yocto (given this: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/tree/arch/arm/boot/dts?h=v5.10.10) | 13:22 |
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| jonesv[m] | And I definitely won't know how to write my own dts for that device (is it called "mainlining apq8009"?) | 13:23 |
| jonesv[m] | Well, I think it's time for me to give up. I already spent enough weekends on that thing, and now it truly feels hopeless 😅 | 13:24 |
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| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: "And unfortunately, apq8009 is not supported by yocto" it's not yocto, but this is the upstream kernel | 13:38 |
| jonesv[m] | right, yes :) | 13:39 |
| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: If you google for "linux kernel for apq8009" you find something from qualcomm for Android | 13:40 |
| jonesv[m] | you think I could try to use their dts? | 13:41 |
| RobertBerger | jonesv[m]: I managed to avoid Android so far, so I have no idea for which kernel version that is and did not search any further. | 13:43 |
| RobertBerger | jonesv[m]: If you want to have some fun like that, you could try to make your own BSP for your Raspi ;) | 13:44 |
| RobertBerger | jonesv[m]: Or be pocketbeagle. I guess I would have something for the pocketbeagle, but with my crappy serial console adapter I can't really work properly. | 13:44 |
| RobertBerger | Or the | 13:45 |
| jonesv[m] | <RobertBerger " jonesv: If you want to have som"> I have spent days reading the meta-raspberrypi BSP and https://github.com/e-ale/meta-pocketbeagle, so it would be cheating. That's not "from scratch", I almost know them by heart now 😀 | 13:45 |
| RobertBerger | Hehe | 13:45 |
| RobertBerger | Which Raspi do you have? | 13:46 |
| OutBackDingo | jonesv[m]: table / multimedia board from qualcomm ? do you have their SDK | 13:46 |
| jonesv[m] | <RobertBerger "jonesv: Or be pocketbeagle. I gu"> BTW I had to patch it for gatesgarth (probably did not do it properly, though), but it seems like it is working with my pocketbeagle: https://github.com/e-ale/meta-pocketbeagle/pull/5. Are you using your own layer for it? | 13:47 |
| RobertBerger | jonesv[m]: pocketbeagle: of course with a 5.10 kernel and u-boot and a wic file and so on. | 13:47 |
| jonesv[m] | <OutBackDingo "jonesv: table / multimedia board"> I don't have their SDK. What's `table /multimedia board`? Are you saying that the apq8009 is for that? In my case it's in a Parrot Skycontroller3 | 13:48 |
| jonesv[m] | <RobertBerger "Which Raspi do you have?"> RPi Zero W, RPi 2, RPi 3, RPi 4 😀 | 13:48 |
| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: So make your own BSP with "upstream only for the RPi4 ;) | 13:49 |
| OutBackDingo | jonesv[m]:yes basically a qualcomm multimedia tablet board | 13:49 |
| OutBackDingo | so might want to hunt for a qualcom apq8009 sdk / dts | 13:50 |
| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: Make a BSP which works both on the RPi 2 and the pocketbeagle - same binaries except for boot loader and device tree | 13:50 |
| jonesv[m] | <RobertBerger "@jonesv[m]: So make your own BSP"> oh, that's an idea. "Upstream only" meaning `linux-yocto`, or meaning using the upstream kernel instead of `linux-yocto`? Not sure if `linux-yocto` is upstream or not 😆 | 13:50 |
| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: kernel from kernel.org | 13:50 |
| jonesv[m] | <OutBackDingo "so might want to hunt for a qual"> aha, so if I got the dts from qualcomm for upstream linux, I could then write my BSP. Is that correct? | 13:51 |
| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: of course you can use the yocto kernel recipes. | 13:51 |
| jonesv[m] | <RobertBerger "@jonesv[m]: Make a BSP which wor"> Sounds good! I'll try that! | 13:51 |
| OutBackDingo | jonesv[m]: basically its an android device right, google apq8009 dts | 13:52 |
| RobertBerger | jonesv[m]: hint: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/tree/arch/arm/configs/multi_v7_defconfig?h=v5.10.10 | 13:52 |
| OutBackDingo | grab the dts and review which kernel rev its in then check the most recent yocto kernel sources, it might already be there | 13:53 |
| jonesv[m] | right | 13:56 |
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| jonesv[m] | <RobertBerger "jonesv: hint: https://git.kerne"> That's for the rpi/pocketbeagle project, right? Use this instead of what's provided by meta-raspberrypi (I mean, don't use meta-raspberrypi at all is the exercise, I think :D) | 13:57 |
| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: yep for the kernel. You will need to make a few other adjustments to make it boot as well, I guess | 13:58 |
| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: meta-raspberrypi does not use the upstream kernel ;) | 13:58 |
| RobertBerger | @jonesv[m]: for bonus points try also the raspi 4 - there the boot process is "interesting" | 13:59 |
| jonesv[m] | <OutBackDingo "grab the dts and review which ke"> I am not sure I follow. Given that apq8009 is not here, doesn't it mean that it won't be in the yocto kernel sources? https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/tree/arch/arm/boot/dts?h=v5.10.10 | 14:01 |
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| OutBackDingo | jonesv[m]: i dont think your looking in the right place try arm64 | 15:39 |
| OutBackDingo | https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/tree/arch/arm64/boot/dts/qcom?h=v5.10.10 | 15:39 |
| jonesv[m] | apq8009 is not there either 🤔. But also it's an armv7, isn't it? | 15:40 |
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| RobertBerger | @ jonesv[m]: I think with the right device tree you might be able to boot it with upstream. | 16:23 |
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| jonesv[m] | Right. But then I need a serial output to see what's happening. I'm trying to find if there is a way to do that, but I think I'll quickly get out of my depth (I've read tutorials where people use an oscilloscope to try to find the tx/gnd pins to connect to, that's too low-level for me) | 16:27 |
| jonesv[m] | I think I won't get that thing to work, but that's an interesting learning experience 😀. I'm a software engineer, coming from much higher level than all that. It's good to learn 😊 | 16:37 |
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| abelloni | jonesv[m]: you could use meta-linaro-toolchain | 21:10 |
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