Sunday, 2021-01-24

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jonesv[m]Aha! Somebody with the same error in postmarketOS suggested compiling with an older version of GCC. Could it be that kernel 3.18 needs an older version of GCC? I will try to make yocto do that, if feasible02:34
vdljonesv[m]: too recent gcc version is a common build error indeed02:40
jonesv[m]Aha, I did not know that02:40
jonesv[m]I see on StackOverflow somebody suggesting "PREFERRED_VERSION_gcc-cross-${TARGET_ARCH} ?= "5.2%"" to use GCC 5.202:42
jonesv[m]I need to figure out which version to use for kernel 3.18.3102:42
jonesv[m]Also I am not sure where GCC will come from... Will yocto build it for me then?02:42
vdljonesv[m]: the best would be to use an host supported by yocto03:01
vdljonesv[m]: I suggest you kas, it's a build tool for bitbake-based project which provide a container as well03:01
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abellonijonesv[m]: I confirm your issue is because the compiler is too recent to compile 3.1811:34
jonesv[m]<vdl "jonesv: the best would be to use"> Isn't Ubuntu supported? I have been using arch for years, but I installed Ubuntu for work (to have the same setup as my colleagues). Not sure how I feel about having yet another distro 😁. I mean, I'm new to yocto, not to Linux. I would hope I can manage my host if I understand what yocto requires 😊11:41
abellonijonesv[m]: you may have some luck by first merging 3.18.14011:41
abellonithe issue is not the compiler from your host but the cross compiler that is built by YP11:42
jonesv[m]Right but I would not expect kas to solve that11:42
abellonino, kas wuill not solve that11:43
jonesv[m]Just because I'm curious, I'll try the PREFERRED_VERSION, I wonder if yocto can build any version of gcc-cross I mention there 😁. If that doesn't work I'll try merging 3.18.14011:44
abelloniI think that you will actually need to do both11:46
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jonesv[m]```NOTE: versions of gcc-cross-arm available: 10.2.012:06
jonesv[m]NOTE: preferred version 4.8% of gcc-cross-arm not available (for item virtual/arm-poky-linux-gnueabi-g++)```12:06
jonesv[m]So I'm guessing yocto does not build the toolchain automatically, does it?12:06
* jonesv[m] sent a long message: < >12:06
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jonesv[m]Oh, yocto has `meta/recipes-devtools/gcc/` only. It means I'll probably stuggle to get it to build an older gcc12:13
sveinseI'm trying to make a minimal image without any services running, but packagegroup-base pulls in DISTRO_FEATURE packages. What is the distinction between IMAGE_FEATURES and DISTRO_FEATURES? In this case I still want the availability of the DISTRO_FEATURES, not just in this specific image.12:21
sveinseMy general understanding is that a distro is the collective set of functionality, while image is the specific instance of it. Or subset if you like.12:22
sveinseSo perhaps the way to do this is to actually create a new minimal distro for this specific image?12:23
RobertBerger@ jonesv[m]: typically there is one (sometimes also more) version/s of the toolchain with a specific yocto version12:24
RobertBerger@ jonesv[m]: any specific reason you want to build with some ancient cross gcc?12:25
RobertBerger@sveinse: we have 3 orthogonal concepts: IMAGE, DISTRO and MACHINE12:25
sveinseRobertBerger: Exactly, but in this case they're not completely orthogonal. Well, technically its not yocto that mix them, but in poky does.12:28
RobertBerger@sveinse: orthogonal meaning you can change one without affecting the others.12:28
sveinseRobertBerger: yes. And packagegroup-base includes packages dependent on DISTRO_FEATURES, hence you change one the other is affected12:29
RobertBergerWait a bit.12:29
RobertBergerlet's say you enable ptest (which is enabled by default). This means ptest packages are installed in your distro12:30
sveinseWell, lets use zeroconf, that's in my list12:31
RobertBergerOn which list? DISTRO_FEATURES?12:32
RobertBergerI guess you have meta-openembedded networking layer then12:33
sveinseSo, I have a distro that shall support zeroconf, so DISTRO_FEATURES has zeroconf in it. But I now want to make a minimal image, but without running avavhi-daemon. My image is using packagegroup-base as the fundamental package to include and thus avahi comes along since its pulled in by DISTRO_FEATURES12:33
jonesv[m]<RobertBerger "@ jonesv: any specific reason yo"> Because with 10.2 I get this "Assembler messages: .err encountered", and abelloni was suggesting that it could be because I need an older compiler for my downstream kernel v3.18.31 (also abelloni mentioned that I would possibly need to update to v3.18.140)12:33
abelloni"Assembler messages: .err encountered" is not your only issue12:34
abellonilog2.h doesn't compile either12:34
RobertBerger@ jonesv[m]: I guess you should either patch your ancient kernel or use a very old Yocto/OE version12:34
jonesv[m]oh, I hadn't seen that12:34
abellonilog2.h:22:1: warning: ignoring attribute 'noreturn' because it conflicts with attribute 'const'12:35
abellonilater on, this ends up being a forbideen warning12:35
RobertBerger@jonesv[m]: You can search for recipes here:
RobertBerger@jonesv[m]: I would say zeroconf is enabled by default in DISTRO_FEATURES and you need to include the other layer to have the recipe for it12:38
RobertBerger@jonesv[m]:                   ${@bb.utils.contains('DISTRO_FEATURES', 'zeroconf', 'avahi', '', d)}12:39
sveinseSo when package-group pulls in packages based on DISTRO_FEATURES, that independence of DISTRO and IMAGE is lost. DISTRO isn't just determine features, it also controls packages, which I would have hoped could be completely and orthogonally controlled by IMAGE. There are two ways around this: a) Build a new custom distro or b) Not use packagegroup-base and replace it with own implementation. None which I12:40
sveinsetruly like :(12:40
RobertBerger@sveinse: if you include pulseaudio in your image and zeroconf is enabled in DISTRO_FEATURES you get avahi pulled in  ;)12:42
sveinseJep, and that's unfortunate12:42
RobertBergerYou can remove DISTRO_FEATURES if you like12:43
RobertBergerit's a list and you remove elements from it12:43
sveinseThen I'm making new distro without a feature, which implies that the feature packages might not be available for installation later12:44
sveinseCan I guarantee that two distros will be compatible?12:44
sveinseOK, I owe an explaination here:12:44
jonesv[m]<RobertBerger "@ jonesv: I guess you should eit"> So I'm using this downstream kernel because I thought it would be my best chance of having something running at all on the device. But maybe I can try with a 5.x kernel and flash that there...12:45
RobertBerger@jonesv[m]: Which device is that?12:45
sveinseWant to build a minimal image with very little functions. No services, just the very basic. But opkg shall work so the user can install avahi and other DISTRO_FEATURES enabled functions from a packagepool. So the DISTRO_FEATURES are being built, not just included in this particular image. Thus wanting to captialize on the orthogonality between IMAGE and DISTRO12:46
jonesv[m]<RobertBerger "@jonesv[m]: Which device is that"> It's a Parrot Skycontroller3. A wifi remote controller for remote-controlled planes/drones12:46
RobertBerger@sveinse: Did you try to build a core-image-minimal?12:47
jonesv[m]Well it's the RC for the Parrot drones, actually. But as a learning project with Yocto, I wanted to create my own image for that thing and use it for my RC plane 😀12:47
RobertBerger@jonesv[m]: which chip is it here?12:48
jonesv[m]<RobertBerger "@jonesv[m]: which chip is it her"> Qualcomm apq800912:49
RobertBergerhehe ;)12:49
jonesv[m]And it also says msm8909, I'm not sure what apq8009/msm8909 means, to be honest12:49
jonesv[m]<RobertBerger "hehe ;)"> Is that bad? 😕12:49
RobertBergerHmm it's quad-core Arm Cortex-A7 so you might at least be able to boot a shell there ;)12:50
jonesv[m]The thing is that I only have USB access to it (I can't have a serial connection to see how the kernel boots). So I have to setup my image with a dhcp server, such that I can SSH over USB when it's booted. Let's be honest, probably it won't boot at all and I'll never manage to connect12:51
jonesv[m]That's why I wanted their downstream kernel. I thought it would give me more chances to actually get it to boot12:51
RobertBerger@jonesv[m]: Is there anything useful here? search qcom
jonesv[m]I could do my project on an RPi or pocketbeagle (yocto build fine there), but that Skycontroller3 is a nice piece of hardware, cheap and mass-produced. Would be cool if there was an open-source way to use it :)12:52
RobertBergerfor RPI you have a meta-rpi layer12:53
jonesv[m]<RobertBerger "@jonesv[m]: Is there anything us"> There are some qcom dts, but not for apq8009 or msm8909. But in the downstream kernel I have a dts for that device. Can't I reuse it?12:54
RobertBergerpocketbeagle should work. I have a problem to get the serial console to work reliably with it12:54
jonesv[m]<RobertBerger "for RPI you have a meta-rpi laye"> Yes I know, and that works fine 😊. But that won't boot on my Skycontroller 😀12:54
RobertBergerSure it's a different chip12:54
RobertBergerI don't think a device tree for you ancient kernel will work on a 5.x kernel.12:54
jonesv[m]So I'm learning Yocto with pocketbeagle and rpi. And I was hoping to learn BSP with the Skycontroller12:55
RobertBergerDo you have a more recent kernel which is supposed to work?12:55
jonesv[m]No, what they publish (and therefore I guess what they deploy on their device) is 3.1812:56
RobertBergerMaybe this works?
RobertBergerBut it's 3.4.1112:58
jonesv[m]Yes it's apparently not for the Skycontroller3. And that would not be Yocto, right?13:00
sveinseRobertBerger: I'll figure out a way around this. Thanks!13:01
jonesv[m]But that's another question I have: say I want to keep their kernel without building it myself (I guess it's on their `boot` partition), and I just want to deploy my rootfs on their `system` partition. Can I do that without compiling the kernel at all? I mean, to build my rootfs, I suppose Yocto needs to have the kernel sources, right?13:02
RobertBerger@jonesv[m]: I never tried this on a "classic" Linux system, but this definitely works with containers. You can use a dummy kernel there.13:04
jonesv[m]But what about packages that depend on the linux-headers? linux-headers are related to the kernel sources, aren't they?13:05
jonesv[m]If my package was built with linux-headers version 5.x, and the kernel runs 3.x, I'll have issues, won't I?13:05
RobertBerger jonesv[m]: Well yes, but the linux-headers are not related to the kernel version in Yocto ;) It's separate packages.13:07
RobertBergerjonesv[m]:  Think about it like you build an SDK and you don't need to build a new SDK if you want to build a new kernel version.13:08
RobertBergerjonesv[m]: Or, say you have kernel and device tree over tftp and rootfs of nfs and change the kernel or the rootfs independently13:09
jonesv[m]So maybe I could just try to use a dummy kernel, still build for apq8009/cortexa7 and try to deploy my rootfs, hoping that the bootloader/kernel are on the `boot` partition and will successfully mount my rootfs on the `system` partition?13:09
RobertBergerjonesv[m]: you might even be lucky that it works with the old kernel, since glibc, even if it calls a system call, which does not exist in your old kernel might try to call an alternative syscall which works13:10
RobertBergerCan you boot with a rootfs over nfs?13:11
RobertBergerI guess you don't have networking.13:11
RobertBergerI mean only wifi networking and I am not sure how will this will work with NFS13:12
jonesv[m]<RobertBerger "I guess you don't have networkin"> I have adb access (to get a root shell or to push stuff there), and I can reboot it in fastboot mode (where I flash the boot, recovery and system images)13:12
jonesv[m]<RobertBerger "I mean only wifi networking and "> Oh I can connect it to my computer over wifi, yes13:12
RobertBergerHmm this sounds like Android ;)13:13
jonesv[m]haha yes, they used to have Android on their RCs, and they moved to linux, but apparently they kept the Android tooling13:13
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jonesv[m]But once I `adb shell` onto that thing, I'm in a normal linux environment. It just isn't the classic beginner-setup for yocto, I guess :D13:15
jonesv[m]I can already connect to it and hack around. But I was hoping to get a nice and clean yocto BSP for it. But it seems like I should give up on that13:16
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jonesv[m]I looked at yocto commit d9aabf9639510fdb3e2ccc21ba5ae4aa9f6e4a57, which "gcc: Drop 4.8". But that came with tons of patches, I am not even sure if I could write my own recipe building gcc-cross 4.8. And if I did, it does not tell me that it would successfully build my kernel.13:18
RobertBerger@ jonesv[m]: You could use some ancient Yocto version13:19
jonesv[m]And still that would not necessarily allow me to build an image for both rpi and this device, since my rpi would run on a new kernel with a new gcc, and this device on an old kernel with an old gcc13:19
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RobertBerger@ jonesv[m]:  I guess I would first try to patch the old kernel to build with a recent gcc and in case this is too tricky use an ancient yocto version13:20
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jonesv[m]I'm not so much into using an ancient yocto because at this point I can just hack around on the device and use yocto on an rpi.13:21
jonesv[m]Patching the old kernel would be nicer, but I would not even know where to start about those "Assembler message: .err encountered"13:21
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jonesv[m]And unfortunately, apq8009 is not supported by yocto (given this:
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jonesv[m]And I definitely won't know how to write my own dts for that device (is it called "mainlining apq8009"?)13:23
jonesv[m]Well, I think it's time for me to give up. I already spent enough weekends on that thing, and now it truly feels hopeless 😅13:24
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RobertBerger@jonesv[m]: "And unfortunately, apq8009 is not supported by yocto" it's not yocto, but this is the upstream kernel13:38
jonesv[m]right, yes :)13:39
RobertBerger@jonesv[m]: If you google for "linux kernel for apq8009" you find something from qualcomm for Android13:40
jonesv[m]you think I could try to use their dts?13:41
RobertBerger jonesv[m]: I managed to avoid Android so far, so I have no idea for which kernel version that is and did not search any further.13:43
RobertBerger jonesv[m]: If you want to have some fun like that, you could try to make your own BSP for your Raspi ;)13:44
RobertBergerjonesv[m]: Or be pocketbeagle. I guess I would have something for the pocketbeagle, but with my crappy serial console adapter I can't really work properly.13:44
RobertBergerOr the13:45
jonesv[m]<RobertBerger " jonesv: If you want to have som"> I have spent days reading the meta-raspberrypi BSP and, so it would be cheating. That's not "from scratch", I almost know them by heart now 😀13:45
RobertBergerWhich Raspi do you have?13:46
OutBackDingojonesv[m]: table / multimedia board from qualcomm ? do you have their SDK13:46
jonesv[m]<RobertBerger "jonesv: Or be pocketbeagle. I gu"> BTW I had to patch it for gatesgarth (probably did not do it properly, though), but it seems like it is working with my pocketbeagle: Are you using your own layer for it?13:47
RobertBerger jonesv[m]: pocketbeagle: of course with a 5.10 kernel and u-boot and a wic file and so on.13:47
jonesv[m]<OutBackDingo "jonesv: table / multimedia board"> I don't have their SDK. What's `table /multimedia board`? Are you saying that the apq8009 is for that? In my case it's in a Parrot Skycontroller313:48
jonesv[m]<RobertBerger "Which Raspi do you have?"> RPi Zero W, RPi 2, RPi 3, RPi 4 😀13:48
RobertBerger@jonesv[m]: So make your own BSP with "upstream only for the RPi4 ;)13:49
OutBackDingojonesv[m]:yes basically a qualcomm multimedia tablet board13:49
OutBackDingoso might want to hunt for a qualcom apq8009 sdk / dts13:50
RobertBerger@jonesv[m]: Make a BSP which works both on the RPi 2 and the pocketbeagle - same binaries except for boot loader and device tree13:50
jonesv[m]<RobertBerger "@jonesv[m]: So make your own BSP"> oh, that's an idea. "Upstream only" meaning `linux-yocto`, or meaning using the upstream kernel instead of `linux-yocto`? Not sure if `linux-yocto` is upstream or not 😆13:50
RobertBerger@jonesv[m]: kernel from kernel.org13:50
jonesv[m]<OutBackDingo "so might want to hunt for a qual"> aha, so if I got the dts from qualcomm for upstream linux, I could then write my BSP. Is that correct?13:51
RobertBerger@jonesv[m]: of course you can use the yocto kernel recipes.13:51
jonesv[m]<RobertBerger "@jonesv[m]: Make a BSP which wor"> Sounds good! I'll try that!13:51
OutBackDingojonesv[m]: basically its an android device right, google apq8009 dts13:52
RobertBergerjonesv[m]:  hint:
OutBackDingograb the dts and review which kernel rev its in then check the most recent yocto kernel sources, it might already be there13:53
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jonesv[m]<RobertBerger "jonesv:  hint: https://git.kerne"> That's for the rpi/pocketbeagle project, right? Use this instead of what's provided by meta-raspberrypi (I mean, don't use meta-raspberrypi at all is the exercise, I think :D)13:57
RobertBerger@jonesv[m]: yep for the kernel. You will need to make a few other adjustments to make it boot as well, I guess13:58
RobertBerger@jonesv[m]: meta-raspberrypi does not use the upstream kernel ;)13:58
RobertBerger@jonesv[m]: for bonus points try also the raspi 4 - there the boot process is "interesting"13:59
jonesv[m]<OutBackDingo "grab the dts and review which ke"> I am not sure I follow. Given that apq8009 is not here, doesn't it mean that it won't be in the yocto kernel sources?
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OutBackDingojonesv[m]: i dont think your looking in the right place try arm6415:39
jonesv[m]apq8009 is not there either 🤔. But also it's an armv7, isn't it?15:40
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RobertBerger@ jonesv[m]: I think with the right device tree you might be able to boot it with upstream.16:23
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jonesv[m]Right. But then I need a serial output to see what's happening. I'm trying to find if there is a way to do that, but I think I'll quickly get out of my depth (I've read tutorials where people use an oscilloscope to try to find the tx/gnd pins to connect to, that's too low-level for me)16:27
jonesv[m]I think I won't get that thing to work, but that's an interesting learning experience 😀. I'm a software engineer, coming from much higher level than all that. It's good to learn 😊16:37
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abellonijonesv[m]: you could use meta-linaro-toolchain21:10
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